The hydrogen vehicle seen by TOTAL

[jean63]

Found on autodeclics.com (video: interview with TOTAL manager):

http://www.autodeclics.com/bio/dynamic. ... OP&id=1569

In Berlin: a station privatizes for buses and a public station for around twenty vehicles.

A V12 for driving in the city, what progress! And not even equipped with "Start and Stop"! And the efficiency of a thermal hydrogen engine must be within 10 to 15%, even lower than that of gasoline. But the important thing is that Total sells its fuel passing for an environmentalist.

Right I did not pay attention to the vehicle !!! Bravo TOTAL

[Christophe]

The BMW 7 series has been tested in France

[jonule]

TOTAL (races): you will no longer come to us!

especially after exploding in the car ...

[carburologue]

I find that the approach of bmw is very promising for the future because it is necessary to underline a rather important thing it seems to me. You say that the h2 serie 7 is a kind of utopia but it should not be forgotten that most of the vehicles today reject on average 150 grams of co2 per km traveled while the series 7 hydrogenates if we consider that the h2 was obtained by reforming etc and that therefore we take into account the co2 emitted during the reforming we arrive at the equivalent of 80 gr of co2 per km traveled, it's already better than 150, can't you think ??? Now I agree with the fact that the infrastructures do not allow the storage of h2 but who knows, with time and modern technologies, in 50 years it may be viable. In any case for my part, I believe that the time of oil is over. The fuel of the future does not exist but the fuels of the future do exist. .I believe that each mode of transportation will have its own fuel.Pac for buses in urban centers, diester for trucks and maybe electric for cars ... let's look at tesla etc ...
Then we must not kid ourselves, in front of such a craze for alternative energies, zero pollution does not exist because as Lavoisier said "nothing is lost, nothing is created".
What more can I say ??? The btl fuel is a real utopia for the moment because 5000 liters of fuel per hectare, it seems impossible to me because today I believe that the technical means do not allow it, it is a little like hydrogen.
I have read that we consume 3500 million tonnes of oil per year worldwide and that if the future were to go through biofuels like ethanol and rapeseed, we would only have the possibility of producing 1400 million tonnes of fuel or 40 percent and this by including agro-food land.
So I think we are in a dead end for the moment.
We will see how the future takes shape ...

[Remundo]

I find that the approach of bmw is very promising for the future
[]
We will see how the future takes shape ...

Hi Carburologe, hi everyone!

I tend to agree with you. but I have reservations.

First of all, no one tells you that H2 diffuses through any material. So that your BMW, despite its super hi-tech tank, after 3 weeks, its full of hydrogen, even if it has not moved from the garage ... SHE NEVER HAS IT

Then, no one tells that the calorific value of H2 is very low compared to that of any hydrocarbon. That's why BMW is doing it on a 12L V6 to keep power. Advertised for 260 Ch in H2, such a "mill" would easily make 500 Ch in SP 95 !!

For H2 manufacturing problems, I defer to Christophe's studies

So how do I see the future of automobiles and transport:
- first of all massively develop solar / renewable energy, to make the H2 vector that we want (sodium, metal hydrides ...)
- secondly, to find a vector to manufacture in situ in the "toto" the H2 under pressure: pure sodium could do that with water, but that rejects soda ... this one could however be recovered and recycled in a sector that needs it.
- third: decompress the H2 in an engine, then when the "piston" rises, inject oxygen to detonate H2.
- fourth: replace the current engines with much more compact and favorable to the combustion of hydrogen engines.

All this would only reject water on condition of recovering in situ in the toto the "waste of the H2 vector"

Utopian? Not at all

@+

[Christophe]

Your analysis is rather good carburologist, but to say that we are at an impasse is not a reason not to develop THE alternatives ... and not the only alternative to petroleum:

a) indeed; except technological "surprise" oil will probably never be replaced by a single source as you seem to want to do with BtL. The solution will be a patchword of solutions ....

b) in your estimate of the total oil consumption, you include heating oil, which is for example much more easily replaceable than vehicle fuels ... the proof has is several on the forum to no longer use gas or petroleum at all ... But no one, to my knowledge, has a car that no longer uses petroleum (well there is NLC with his scooter and electric bike)

c) BtL is technologically advanced but it is not yet "economically" profitable (but when the financiers take into account the cost of a planet we will speak again ...)

d) there is better than BtL in terms of yield compared to the surface!
The oleaginous microalgae have a potential of 42 to 140L per ha and these surfaces will not nibble on AGRICULTURAL surfaces! And we can even imagine floating cultures on the oceans if necessary !!

View record 3rd generation biofuels of the future page 34 and following!

Now we are at the beginning but it is the most promising route of the alternatives I think ... We have already talked about it a lot everywhere on the site, make a researchif you want to know more.

e) and finally the most important: we will have to learn to seriously consume less, or rather consume better, primary energy!

a + b + c + d + e = cqfd = start of solution ... now just WANT to develop them ... Main obstacle: these solutions are to fix everyone ...

[jean63]

You're right, seaweed is very good EXCEPT:

I watched Thalassa on FR3 on Friday evening and there was a report on the "ceuillette" of algae on the Moroccan coast. At the beginning, it was a small local "occupation" which brought back a few dirhams to the couraguex who dive without safety (sometimes without knowing how to swim) to go and collect the algae at the bottom of the sea .......... and then it has become a real business; there are hundreds of them doing that, "seaweed wholesalers" come to buy them at low prices and take it away in trucks for export, and there are some who fill their pockets with it. .

Finally, they collect 16000 tonnes per year (or 30000 ... I don't know), it has taken on gigantic proportions, and soon there will be no more algae in the area !!!

So if we want to use them to make fuel for our totos, it is in the best interest to plan very large and in "intensive breeding" ......

[Christophe]

Uh Jean, we're talking about microalgae there ... no macroalgae ... it has nothing to do with it and it looks like this:




To know more: Algae Fuel Oil, the New American Green Gold Researchers

At 140 m3 of fuel per ha, that's 5 tankers per ha per year! At 1 € per liter ... you can calculate the profitability on the agricultural area ...

To do better as a yield, apart from the drug, I don't see ... Ah, maybe a very good Grand Cru variety ...

Your program had to talk about algae for fertilizers ... right?

[Remundo]

Yes Christophe an energy mix, that's what it takes, any solution is good to take.

Now, oil, even renewable, makes CO2 / NOx and therefore it pollutes the city. This is why from a clean air perspective, initiatives like that of BMW are needed. But it is not yet satisfactory because H2 is hellish to store / compress / produce.

Another problem: the fields that you suggest shade the seabed. There is no doubt that there will not be much life under the carpet. Finally for surfaces of the order of the ocean ...

@+

[jean63]

Your program had to talk about algae for fertilizers ... right?

Macro-algae are used in many areas, I did not look at everything in detail because I was disturbed by such a move; what is certain is that they made a great raid of the seabed for our products: used in gelling ... etc multiple uses.

I am looking for a summary in FR3.

OK, I see for micro-algae. It is necessary to find zones protected from the big storms and the place in these zones because there are also the fish farms of more and more numerous.

But hey it is clear that if we do not try it does not happen.