The car Biogas

crude vegetable oil, diester, bio-ethanol or other biofuels, or fuel of vegetable origin ...
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by Remundo » 08/07/15, 11:15

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by moinsdewatt » 29/08/15, 12:55

NewHolland tests its T6 biomethane tractor in Italy

Posted by Frédéric DOUARD the 24 August 2015

Presented at the Universal Exhibition in Milan, the biomethane tractor continues its development through a test program organized in partnership with La Bellota farm located on the outskirts of Turin.

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http://www.bioenergie-promotion.fr/4247 ... en-italie/
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by Remundo » 29/08/15, 21:52

the big silos on the left with the inflated tarpaulin are biomethanizers. They are the ones who can produce biomethane.
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by chatelot16 » 29/08/15, 23:18

the use of methane is much more logical in a tractor than in a car

the disadvantage of compressed methane tanks is to be heavier than the methane put in it: the weight is a serious disadvantage for a car ... limited autonomy because it would be too heavy to put the same autonomy that to gasoline

it's less of a problem for a tractor because most of the tractors need a counterpoise to get enough grip ... the weight of the methane tank will only be a little less counterweight

the majority of tractor use is at a short distance around the farm: easy to refuel with methane often enough, no need for long battery life

I imagine that the solution is cocombustion, diesel and methane, so if for certain use it takes a longer autonomy it must be possible to turn only diesel

another major benefit of methane in a tractor: no tax on road fuel ... so no fuss of short-circuiting the tax on gasoline
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by Did67 » 30/08/15, 09:57

I looked for doc, because obviously it interests us ... But they talk about biogas, purified biomethane.

But it is very expensive, a filtration unit. Which we do not need if we operate in cogeneration. For the moment, this requires having very large biogas units to make the filtration profitable for an injection in the network ... And in this case, obviously, this type of motorization is sensible.

Note: this is not new. Valtra had presented 5 or 6 in a biogas tractor, hybrid (dualfuel): it was running on biogas and diesel, the biogas only reducing the consumption of diesel ... http://www.valtra.fr/522.aspx
We were in contact with them for a demonstration / test ...
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by Remundo » 30/08/15, 10:08

it is correct that the methane which comes out of the "big balloons" is not at all pure, and probably not used as it is in the tractor. They contain CO2, H2O, and various residues (H2S for example).

There are stationary cogeneration engines that pretty much burn this poor mixture directly.

I do not know exactly what this NewHolland does ... If it burns pure, it would be amazing for a Diesel. But not for a gasoline engine.

It seems however that it is about a "dual fuel" according to this site
http://agriculture.newholland.com/ir/en ... thane.aspx
The methane is generated through renewable biomass in the biogas plant available on the farm. The T6.140 Methane Power, is all about the features of a standard tractor and is equipped with a four-cylinder, three-liter engine produced by FPT Industrial, and develops a maximum power of 135hp and 620Nm torque.

The compressed methane is stored in nine tanks. The 50kg capacity delivers a half-life of a normal operation, and an auxiliary 15 liter fuel tank provides a backup in case of need.

alternately burning either methane or "fuel". The combustion had to be neat. Maybe there is a double injector ...

I would like to know if the combustion is 100% gas, or if there are microinjections of gasoil to ignite the methane (usual technique called Dual Fuel)
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by Did67 » 30/08/15, 11:04

1) Like you, I think the docs indicate that it works on "biogas" or "methane", implied purified.

2) It is indicated that it is "dual-fuel": a priori, this term is used for Diesel engines on which a very small "match" injection of diesel is kept. This is the case with our Schnell cogeneration group, equipped with a converted Scania Diesel, which still consumes a few liters per hour of diesel as a "match" and otherwise operates on unpurified biomethane (at around 50% CH4 at we).

To my understanding, it's a Diesel. But indeed, the indication that the 15 l diesel tank serves as a back-up "in case of need" is troubling.

3) FYI, Schnell has developed a new series with "Otto cycle" (gasoline engine type), but with very high compression ratios like a Diesel. The gas does not ignite, despite this very high rate. The ignition is then done by a micro-injection of gas in a pre-chamber + ignition by a spark plug. The explosion is then communicated to the cylinder, which contains the air-gas mixture. With a record yield of 45,5%

I do not know if this principle is repeated here. Given the compression ratio, the carcass of the engine is diesel type. I do not know on what basis Schnell has developed his machine ...

4) So if that's right, we can not use it because we do not purify the biogas. It is just filtered to extract the H2S, which would be quickly fatal for the engine (which corrodes even stainless!).

And this is, I think, the "problem": for the moment, the filtration units are excessively expensive and do not pay for themselves for small units like ours (all of 240 kW electric!).

The potential market for this machine would be large stations with a filtration unit for injection. In agriculture, it hardly exists (some units in construction I think), the simple way is cogeneration (a fortiori if there is a need for heat, which eliminates the main disadvantage of cogeneration = the fatal heat released by the engine).
Last edited by Did67 the 30 / 08 / 15, 11: 28, 1 edited once.
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by Macro » 30/08/15, 11:28

chatelot16 wrote:
another major benefit of methane in a tractor: no tax on road fuel ... so no fuss of short-circuiting the tax on gasoline


The gnr used in tractors is completely taxed ...
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by Did67 » 30/08/15, 11:34

As often, I think it's a bit more complicated; it's hard to be simple in France!

Refund is a question repayment of the TICPE (which replaces the TIPP): http://vosdroits.service-public.fr/prof ... 4458.xhtml

"Farmers who use fuel for the needs of their agricultural activity can be reimbursed a part taxes levied on their actual fuel expenses for agricultural vehicles incurred during the previous year "
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by Macro » 30/08/15, 11:42

Did67 wrote:As often, I think it's a bit more complicated; it's hard to be simple in France!

Refund is a question repayment of the TICPE (which replaces the TIPP): http://vosdroits.service-public.fr/prof ... 4458.xhtml

"Farmers who use fuel for the needs of their agricultural activity can be reimbursed a part taxes levied on their actual fuel expenses for agricultural vehicles incurred during the previous year "


The GNR is diesel traced and colored ... Its price of manufacture is higher than the diesel and its selling price is around 0.75 TTC remove him 20% of VAT (that the farmers recover) ..I am on vacation but tomorrow I could tell you how many taxes there are on this product ...
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