Recycling of synthetic fuel CO2?

crude vegetable oil, diester, bio-ethanol or other biofuels, or fuel of vegetable origin ...
sicetaitsimple
Econologue expert
Econologue expert
posts: 9774
Registration: 31/10/16, 18:51
Location: Lower Normandy
x 2638

Re: Recycling CO2 into synthetic fuel?




by sicetaitsimple » 24/12/22, 17:19

NCSH wrote:As for being enthusiastic, you can hardly fault this small group of Finnish academics.
They drew their costing elements from German manufacturers and other leaders in these innovative processes.
Maybe with a bit of optimism...

That's what I said! It takes enthusiastic people to clear the trails! But transforming tracks into roads, there you have to hit the hard, and generally that reserves a certain number of unpleasant surprises.
From experience, the non-binding costings of manufacturers at the "feasibility study" stage generally turn out to be completely underestimated when we start talking seriously about a possible realization, even a pilot unit.
Happy Christmas too.
0 x
User avatar
Remundo
Moderator
Moderator
posts: 15995
Registration: 15/10/07, 16:05
Location: Clermont Ferrand
x 5189

Re: Recycling CO2 into synthetic fuel?




by Remundo » 11/09/23, 09:29

The STELLANTIS group (formerly Peugeot-Citroën PSA) is positioning itself in favor of synthetic fuel produced by ARAMCO
We did not know at the time who was the supplier of these synthetic fuels, but we know today, it is Aramco, the Saudi giant more than giant. As expected, all of the automaker's tests were successful. The people who develop these synthetic fuels, by mixing CO2 extracted from ambient air with renewable hydrogen, are not amateurs.

source: motor Nature

this will delight our Friend NCSH, specialist in these questions.

there would be something prankish, but my goodness, ARAMCO sells fossil fuels, which produce CO2 by combustion, then thanks to the Sun and water, synthesizes a fuel, sells it a second time and so on.. . :P : Twisted: : Wink:
0 x
Image
User avatar
Macro
Econologue expert
Econologue expert
posts: 6459
Registration: 04/12/08, 14:34
x 1610

Re: Recycling CO2 into synthetic fuel?




by Macro » 11/09/23, 09:45

Who has the technical means, the human skills, and the financial means to do this kind of research... Those who have always been immersed in it... Would you ever think of entrusting the pouring of the foundations of your house has a florist?
0 x
The only thing safe in the future. It is that there may chance that it conforms to our expectations ...
User avatar
Remundo
Moderator
Moderator
posts: 15995
Registration: 15/10/07, 16:05
Location: Clermont Ferrand
x 5189

Re: Recycling CO2 into synthetic fuel?




by Remundo » 11/09/23, 09:55

I didn't quite understand the meaning of your message... If you want to clarify...
0 x
Image
User avatar
Macro
Econologue expert
Econologue expert
posts: 6459
Registration: 04/12/08, 14:34
x 1610

Re: Recycling CO2 into synthetic fuel?




by Macro » 11/09/23, 10:14

Who has the most expertise when it comes to fuels? The oil companies and their staff of chemists, laboratory workers, researchers, etc.

Or the state organizations (universities, theodule committees, research centers) and their working staff?
1 x
The only thing safe in the future. It is that there may chance that it conforms to our expectations ...
User avatar
Remundo
Moderator
Moderator
posts: 15995
Registration: 15/10/07, 16:05
Location: Clermont Ferrand
x 5189

Re: Recycling CO2 into synthetic fuel?




by Remundo » 11/09/23, 10:42

Conversely, we can be cautious about the fact that an oil company is developing an alternative product, or even competing with its initial business.

Where the oil company like ARAMCO marks its power, it is above all finance. And indeed this allows it to bring together the best researchers and above all to build large-scale factories if necessary.

In 2022, ARAMCO generated €160 billion in profits

the guys are full of money and buy everything. We even help them, we stupid French people, by not developing anything at home.

Failing to generate wealth in and for his country, Nono La Mrd increases fuel taxes. It’s visionary!
0 x
Image
User avatar
Macro
Econologue expert
Econologue expert
posts: 6459
Registration: 04/12/08, 14:34
x 1610

Re: Recycling CO2 into synthetic fuel?




by Macro » 11/09/23, 10:57

Remundo wrote:Conversely, we can be cautious about the fact that an oil company is developing an alternative product, or even competing with its initial business.



Because they know that there is not going to be some at the bottom of the wells forever... and that the product itself is going to be more and more "shunned" so if they want to continue to rake in the billions... You have to retrain...
1 x
The only thing safe in the future. It is that there may chance that it conforms to our expectations ...
sicetaitsimple
Econologue expert
Econologue expert
posts: 9774
Registration: 31/10/16, 18:51
Location: Lower Normandy
x 2638

Re: Recycling CO2 into synthetic fuel?




by sicetaitsimple » 11/09/23, 11:52

Remundo wrote:Conversely, we can be cautious about the fact that an oil company is developing an alternative product, or even competing with its initial business.

Not necessarily. There are two very different worlds among oil companies, that of exploration/production on the one hand (and its "cowboy" or "adventurer" side, as you wish), and the much more "policed" world, even " "needy" of refining.
The financial risks, but also the margins, are very different. Big risks (unproductive drilling) but big potential margins on the E/P side, more recurring but “limited” profits on the refining side.
That a large oil company seeks to maintain a certain balance (in the case of synthetic fuels by developing the refining part) does not necessarily seem surprising to me.
1 x
NCSH
Éconologue good!
Éconologue good!
posts: 203
Registration: 17/11/21, 18:15
Location: Orbiting Venus
x 135

Re: Recycling CO2 into synthetic fuel?




by NCSH » 11/09/23, 12:57

Macro wrote:Who has the most expertise when it comes to fuels? The oil companies and their staff of chemists, laboratory workers, researchers, etc.

Or state organizations (universities,theodules committees, research center) and their window staff?

Indeed, since June, we have had an "Observatory...", since August an "Office...", responsible for coordinating the development on national soil of some costly synthetic industries, for 520 ktoe by 2030 or a little +; forgetting the essential: CO2 must come mainly from atmospheric capture...

This will at least have the merit of training a few thousand specialists for future decades.

Note the total absence of communication from the French government on this subject, which is regaling us with its hydrogen planes and so many other nonsense; unlike Germany for which for 5 years this has taken the place of official policy, clearly displayed in various official documents (notably the NCEP documents which show the energy-climate commitments towards Brussels) and in the economic press at least once per week.

In terms of national production, the Germans remain a few steps ahead: they support a project which consists of recovering CO2 "fatal" associated with the production of cement, or even associated with the methanization of agricultural materials...
However, the quantities available will be insufficient and the economic models will be more expensive.
0 x
To discover the parallel universe of non-fossil carbon energy carriers, take the time to browse (15 min) the website NCSH : http://www.ncsh.eu/language/fr/energie-et-matiere/
sicetaitsimple
Econologue expert
Econologue expert
posts: 9774
Registration: 31/10/16, 18:51
Location: Lower Normandy
x 2638

Re: Recycling CO2 into synthetic fuel?




by sicetaitsimple » 11/09/23, 14:15

NCSH wrote:forgetting the essential: CO2 must come mainly from atmospheric capture...

I still don't understand why using naturally highly charged CO2 sources would be stupider than treating air at 400 ppm....except for the fact that I can do it anywhere. But we are still waiting for the power consumption associated with the DAC? New?
Moreover, the German examples that you cite go in this direction, cement plant fumes (x%, perhaps around 10?) or biogas whose CO2 content is around 50%
0 x

 


  • Similar topics
    Replies
    views
    Last message

Back to "biofuels, biofuels, biofuels, BtL, non-fossil alternative fuels ..."

Who is online ?

Users browsing this forum : No registered users and 114 guests