Recycling of synthetic fuel CO2?

[Remundo]

At a pinch on Venus which is closer to the Sun!

no direct solar on the surface of Venus...

A thick atmosphere with >90% CO2, strong winds, 460°C on the ground.

there are those who dream of colonies in the upper atmosphere with some kind of dirigible balloons...

I'm skipping my turn...

[NCSH]

Investments will also go where there are consumers/users consuming/using!

So a priori not in desert or semi-desert areas which would be technically the most appropriate.

Yes, Yes, I meant that the investments will go to the sectors most in demand by consumers/users.

The tropical desert and semi-desert zones offer, we can already affirm it, a new source of abundant energy and by far the least expensive, from which some envisage, with known processes and in development in the short term, to produce at lower cost of primary steel, nitrogen fertilizers, non-fossil carbon energy carriers, can also be glass, silicon, ...

Unless there is a collapse of the thermo-industrial civilization which would impose a withdrawal towards exclusively local or national possibilities, as during the collapse of the Roman Empire which plunged us into a considerable regression in the Middle Ages...

We still have time to react and allow future generations to benefit from a new period of relative abundance, even if it costs a little more than hitherto.

[Remundo]

On paper it's good. In principle it is noble.

I fear that international cooperation will not take place.

perhaps you preach in the desert? Others have tried it before you.

For my part, I would be in a somewhat median trajectory: to value everything that we can locally, nationally...

See if we can geopolitically participate in these major projects that you are calling for.

But when we see that the COP Machin do not even manage to agree on a few GTs of annual CO2... or the current multipolar warlike rivalries, we can doubt it.

[NCSH]

On paper it's good. In principle it is noble.

I fear that international cooperation will not take place.

perhaps you preach in the desert? Others have tried it before you.

For my part, I would be in a somewhat median trajectory: value everything we can locally, nationally...
See if we can geopolitically participate in these major projects that you are calling for.

But when we see that the COP Machin do not even manage to agree on a few GTs of annual CO2... or the current multipolar warlike rivalries, we can doubt it.

One does not prevent the other.
But it would be necessary to find figures of the quantities available locally and nationally.
They may not be that high.

[sicetaitsimple]

The tropical desert and semi-desert zones offer, we can already affirm it, a new source of abundant energy and by far the least expensive, from which some envisage, with known processes and in development in the short term, to produce at lower cost of primary steel, nitrogen fertilizers, non-fossil carbon energy carriers, can also be glass, silicon, ...

Yes, it's extended and reheated Desertec. If "some are considering", no problem, let them go. What's holding them back? Is it still weird?
In the meantime, we can find iron ore and metallurgical coal in quite a few places in the world, let them meet in Dunkirk and Fos / Mer and at least we will produce "French" steel in the meantime .
This is just an example, it must be a bit the same for other sectors.

[NCSH]

The tropical desert and semi-desert zones offer, we can already affirm it, a new source of abundant energy and by far the least expensive, from which some envisage, with known processes and in development in the short term, to produce at lower cost of primary steel, nitrogen fertilizers, non-fossil carbon energy carriers, can also be glass, silicon, ...

Yes, it's extended and reheated Desertec. If "some are considering", no problem, let them go. What's holding them back? Is it still weird?
In the meantime, we can find iron ore and metallurgical coal in quite a few places in the world, let them meet in Dunkirk and Fos/Mer and at least we will produce "French" steel. Looking forward to.
This is just an example, it must be a bit the same for other sectors.

The after is tomorrow or the day after tomorrow.

With the generalization of carbon taxes or their equivalents, as European countries agreed this month on carbon taxes on imports, this only leaves a few decades to change everything...

[sicetaitsimple]

With the generalization of carbon taxes or their equivalents, as European countries agreed this month on carbon taxes on imports, this only leaves a few decades to change everything...

Tax or no tax, there are actually only a few decades for the global energy system to evolve quite profoundly on a "voluntary" basis, otherwise it will certainly be on a constrained basis, which would certainly be less "pleasant".
Hence the importance of deploying the most efficient solutions first, and of reserving those that are less efficient (including e-fuels) for a more distant future.

[Remundo]

as for France...

Mediterranean territorial waters...

receive about 3 kWh/m²/year. About 3000Wh/8766h = 342 W/m² on average.

A PV panel will extract about 100 W/m² to fix ideas.

So much so that a Mediterranean square with a side of 10 km can extract an average power of 10 GW.

As intermittent production, it is inconvenient for the network. If well valued in e-fuel, the intermittence would be less of a problem.

We don't necessarily need to wait for fanciful projects at the equator. Even DESERTEC saw too big.

I would rather be for a EUROTREC, and even a FRANCE Project...

We also need to recycle our organic waste. What could these 10 GW of electricity do with biomass thermolysis installations? We would be in totally allothermic thermolysis. Almost all the organic matter would be recoverable in synfuel.

Or these 10 GW could electrolyze water, we keep the O2 on one side for specific uses, and we combine the H2 with factories that produce fatal CO2 to get out of methanol and/or ethanol.

Here are the kind of projects to carry out.

I've had these ideas in my head for a long time, but they are far beyond me.

as a reminder...

[sicetaitsimple]

So much so that a Mediterranean square with a side of 10 km can extract an average power of 10 GW.

You can make calculations, but the sea is really a merciless universe, nothing that is immersed in it or that floats on it can resist it. No way, except offshore wind, which is above the sea.

[NCSH]

as for France...

Mediterranean territorial waters...

receive about 3 kWh/m²/year. About 3000Wh/8766h = 342 W/m² on average.

A PV panel will extract about 100 W/m² to fix ideas.

So much so that a Mediterranean square with a side of 10 km can extract an average power of 10 GW.

As intermittent production, it is inconvenient for the network. If well valued in e-fuel, the intermittence would be less of a problem.

We don't necessarily need to wait for fanciful projects at the equator. Even DESERTEC saw too big.

I would rather be for a EUROTREC, and even a FRANCE Project...

We also need to recycle our organic waste. What could these 10 GW of electricity do with biomass thermolysis installations? We would be in totally allothermic thermolysis. Almost all the organic matter would be recoverable in synfuel.

Or these 10 GW could electrolyze water, we keep the O2 on one side for specific uses, and we combine the H2 with factories that produce fatal CO2 to get out of methanol and/or ethanol.

Here are the kind of projects to carry out.

I've had these ideas in my head for a long time, but they are far beyond me.

as a reminder...

It is the whole point of this kind of giant solar park to be able to be "off-the-grid", possibly maritime if we manage to get them to come out in one piece after the storms (those of the Mediterranean are also reputed to be very violent), to be able to forget the problem of intermittency when they are made to produce hydrogen and therefore other storable productions.

However the cost of electrical energy or hydrogen will be 1.5 to 2 times more expensive than in the tropics. See for this the LUT study made public in September 2021 which can be downloaded from this thread page 4: Solar Hydrogen.