How to ride E85 with an old injection system?

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106E85
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How to ride E85 with an old injection system?




by 106E85 » 19/07/08, 17:41

Hello everybody

Many people drive with a part or 100% of E85 for their more or less recent petrol vehicles, or old but powered by carburetor.

A question comes to me: what modification / trick should I put in place to drive the E85 with an old injection system? (without lambda probe or catalyst before 1993)
Indeed without lambda regulation, and with ethanol levels that vary from season to season, the system cannot manage a stoichiometric mixture for lack of measuring the residual oxygen rate in the exhaust.

Thank you for your possible lights!
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by Leo Maximus » 19/07/08, 17:59

If you haven't already done so, then search for "E85" or ask the question on www.forum-auto.com.
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by 106E85 » 19/07/08, 18:30

Thing made on forum auto and superethanol.fr but without really having found it. It is a priori question of a fuel flex kit at 90 € or something like that but it's your focus on lambda regulation ... which I don't have!
There are apparently not many people who have an injection system without a lambda probe.
: Cry:
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by Christophe » 19/07/08, 19:09

Uh I do not understand well there: what difference between a fuel and a mechanical injection without lambda?

The kits currently offered only play on electronics ...

To modify an old engine so that it runs "well" on E85 you must "simply" enrich the mixture a little more... in other words either put a bigger nozzle or put an offset at the mechanical injection level.

https://www.econologie.com/forums/conseils-p ... t3999.html
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by 106E85 » 19/07/08, 20:24

Yes it is true that without lambda probe it is the same as with carburetor somewhere ... however the model of which I speak is well equipped with an electronic injection system.
But without a lambda point sensor from an "E85 kit", I think it is necessary to "tweak" to enrich the famous 30%, but it is tricky insofar as the ethanol rate varies according to the seasons, and that it would be necessary to be at a% determined to always have the same wealth (or always 100% then ..).
It remains to find a real technological solution other than that of your link which is pefectible in my opinion ......
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by Christophe » 19/07/08, 21:35

106E85 wrote:the ethanol level varies according to the seasons


Uh E85 is 15% gasoline ... all year ...
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by I Citro » 19/07/08, 23:15

: Arrow: A priori, current cars with injection, support the E85 without modification.

The forums specialists seem to confirm this.
A friend who owns a Mini (BMW) Cooper S has been driving 50/50 for some time and has noticed no difference, except for her wallet ...
The E85 pumps are not on my usual routes so I have not tried since I already run on LPG ...
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by 106E85 » 20/07/08, 21:54

Christophe wrote:
106E85 wrote:the ethanol level varies according to the seasons


Uh E85 is 15% gasoline ... all year ...


Well that's not what I read on other sites that talk about this fuel: there would be a% of SP 95 which would be more important in winter, enough to transform "E85" into "E70 ". This is what I was retorted when I asked the question of systems without lambda sensor. Where would be the complexity in addition to not being able to "self-regulate".
But apart from our considerations of "forum"What is the State doing (or the oil companies, I don't know), to propose" solutions "to the lack of oil very soon? As everything is only marketing, that surprises me! Because while waiting for it NEW cars with internal combustion engines are still sold..people should be wondering what it will look like in 3-5-10 years ... what will they do with it if the SP or GO is at 3 € / l in 2012? (What some specialists predict).
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by Chatham » 21/07/08, 09:00

106E85 wrote:
Christophe wrote:
106E85 wrote:the ethanol level varies according to the seasons


Uh E85 is 15% gasoline ... all year ...


Because in the meantime there are still selling cars with NEW internal combustion engines..people should ask themselves the question what it will give in 3-5-10 years ... what will they do with it if the SP or the GO is at 3 € / l in 2012? (What some specialists foresee).


No E85 is 15% of SP95 because it is standardized, but there are different gradations in other countries (it is no longer called E85 then), especially USA or there is also E30 for example. , which works very well without modification on modern regulated injection vehicles ...
On the other hand, it is advisable to add SP95 in the E85 in winter to facilitate start-ups ...
This type of fuel is therefore not well suited for old vehicles with carburetor or mechanical injection, not only because of the imprecision of the dosage (= high rate of combustion = waste of energy), but also because their compression is often weak which gives a very poor performance with alcohol (8.5 / 1 compression ratio is not uncommon, whereas today it is more than 11/1 on modern gasoline car engines ), the ideal for optimum performance is variable-pressure supercharging (depending on the octane number of the fuel), which is possible today with the new turbo petrol engines, because an atmospheric engine optimized for E85 (i.e. ~ 14/1 compression ratio) will no longer be able to run with SP95 or even 98, just with index 110 airplane gasoline which would be "a little" complicated and extremely expensive (in Europe at least) ...
In addition, vehicles before the "unleaded" all have flexible pipes incompatible with alcohol, but since there is no longer any 97 super leaded (~ 10 years), we can imagine that these pipes (and floats foam carbs) were replaced because they dissolved with the unleaded, especially the early one which contained up to 30% benzene ...
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by 106E85 » 21/07/08, 14:31

Thank you for this beautiful presentation. In my case, it would be to adapt to the E85 an engine with an already high compression ratio (9.9 / 1 small sports car from 1992), with electronic injection system, but without lambda probe. So it's more complicated as you explain. If someone has already made this type of adaptation ...
Would it be enough for a 50/50 SP95 / E85 mixture to increase the richness by 15% by increasing the fuel pressure in the injection manifold? Logically for 100% of E85 it would be an increase of 30% that would be necessary, so I deduce that at 50% of E85 we must enrich the mixture by 15% ...
Hence the interest would be to find a variable pressure regulator and to increase from, for example, 3 bars to 3,45 bars the supply pressure to the injectors (3 + 15% = 3,45). I do not know.
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