Failure of E85 pumps

crude vegetable oil, diester, bio-ethanol or other biofuels, or fuel of vegetable origin ...
bamboo
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by bamboo » 31/05/07, 09:41

I would be interested to know more about it.
I have an E85 pump nearby, that would tell me to mix.
But with my old (carburetor) engine, I'm a little scared.
Have others already experienced it? I don't often fill up, but I want to try it next time.

SixK wrote:40% E85! ??? maybe in an injection, although I doubt it.
But surely not in a fuel car!

According to the tests which were made on a 125cc, up to 15% of ethanol the engine turns even more or less normally, after must adjust the carburetion and the ignition advance.

Basically, at best, we should be able to put 17% E85 without modifications in a fuel car.
And again it must depend on the cars.
In short it is better to count on 10% so as not to have problems .... :)

SixK
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Daget
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by Daget » 23/07/07, 01:34

Hello everybody.

So I signed up on forum to share my experience with the E85.

I am the proud owner of a Toyota Yaris 2 petrol 1.0L
for some time the idea of ​​using alcohol to feed my yaya trotai in the head, I ended up cracked and following what I had find on the internet I tried myself at 20% E85 seeing that it worked very well I went to 30% then 50% and now my yaris runs at 100% E85 without any modification.

The engine reacted very well and even seemed slightly more nervous.
To be sure I did some measurement (on closed road) and the times could not lie: a 0 to 100KM / h completed in 13.5s (as well as the 1.3L model of the yaris) and a 400M da in 19s is more than 2s better than what the manufacturer announces.

Now the problems related to the use of E85 are due to the brightness of this alcohol which is around 13 ° C while unleaded 95 is around -40 ° C
which makes it difficult for the engine to start when the ambient air is below 13 ° C.
It takes about 2 to 3 starter strokes and about 1 minute during which the engine is only idling for the engine to arrive running like petrol and this when the outside temperature is at 10 ° C.

Overconsumption: by turning unleaded 95 I was consuming an average of 7l / 100km on pure E85 I was consuming 8.5L / 100KM
considering the price of E85 and that of SP95 the economy is not negligible. (it largely covers the price of insurance (all risk) and I am a young driver.)

So here is my experience with the E85.

PS: this post is only there to share the tests that I have been able to do and is in no way a generality.
I decline all responsibility and could in no case be held responsible for any damage due to the use of the E85 in a vehicle not provided for this purpose.
Last edited by Daget the 23 / 07 / 07, 22: 23, 1 edited once.
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by Christophe » 23/07/07, 10:02

Hi and welcome and thank you for your feedback! Here are 2 remarks.

daget wrote:Now the problems related to the use of E85 are due to the brightness of this alcohol which is around 13 ° C while unleaded 95 is around -40 ° C


Bright point? What's this? : Shock: You probably mean the flash point right? See here: https://www.econologie.com/les-carburant ... s-644.html

daget wrote:This makes it difficult for the engine to start when the ambient air is below 13 ° C.
It takes about 2 to 3 starter strokes and about 1 minute during which the engine is only idling for the engine to arrive running like petrol and this when the outside temperature is at 10 ° C.


When we know that 70% of engine wear is at start-up, we must take this consideration carefully: if the use of 100% E85 reduces the engine's lifespan, the economic benefit quickly becomes limited.

FYI, the gray energy necessary to manufacture a car (because an AC engine change becomes extremely rare therefore HS engine = new car) corresponds to approximately 30 km of consumption.
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SixK
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by SixK » 23/07/07, 10:09

Obviously, you can put a lot more ethanol in a gasoline car than I thought! :)
So much the better if I made a big mistake !! :)

Can't wait for a pump near my house!

SixK
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bamboo
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by bamboo » 23/07/07, 10:15

SixK wrote:Obviously, you can put a lot more ethanol in a gasoline car than I thought! :)
So much the better if I made a big mistake !! :)

Can't wait for a pump near my house!

SixK


Hello,

Mistrust anyway! I agree with Christophe: a broken engine is far from being economical ... The ideal would be to make an analysis by opening the engine after 1 year of use ... Not easy for everyone (in all case, I'm not able to ... although ... opening it should be good ... but closing it is another story ... : Cheesy: )

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Jamba Juice
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by Jamba Juice » 23/07/07, 19:12

So I wonder what we expect to either modify your vehicle or fill up with 50% SP and 50% E85 ...
One site even offers to win a conversion kit! I am registered ... : Lol:
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by Daget » 23/07/07, 22:02

Yes indeed I am wrong it is the flash point and not the flash.

To no longer have a problem with cold starts the idea would be to heat the air that enters the engine using a hair dryer but still must you find one that works on 12V, I will try to do this before this winter otherwise you will have to run with less ethanol or there is always the start-pilot but hey this is not a real solution to this problem.

It is true that on the long therm I have no valid data, for the moment I made approximately 5000km with 100% of E85 the only point which I could notice is that the candles became slightly golden (it was completely white with SP95) after reflection this is certainly due to the ethanol combustion temperature which is lower than petrol which reduces the self-cleaning effect of candles.
No oxidation in the manifold and the exhaust line, but I did not forget to dismantle the cylinder head because the VVT ​​system has the relatively hard area has stalled correctly.

The lambda probe displays a voltage of 0.4V at idle, I am developing a system to make lambda measurements while driving, I will keep you informed as soon as these measurements are made.

Otherwise with regard to the compression ratio and the ignition advance, these modifications are useful for optimizing the combustion of the E85 and thus having the highest possible yield.
From what I could read the optimal compression rate is around 13/1 and about 15 ° more in advance.
In the case of a turbo engine, increasing the turbo pressure is more easily achievable than changing the compression ratio and will have a similar effect.

For carburetor engines it is necessary to increase the richness because the E85 needs approximately 20% more gasoline to function correctly.
That said, I did not have the opportunity to try the E85 on a carburetor car, maybe it works without having to modify anything.
I have a friend who has an old AX with fuel that drags to the bottom of his garage if I find the time I would try and I will post all his.

Voila voila I hope this post was not too long to read.
Have a good trip.
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moi91
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by moi91 » 26/07/07, 13:18

Hello everyone !! I too am a fan of the E85 I created a site that brings together lots of people! I invite you to come visit it and share your experiences so that we men can change our mentality!

he is named: http://superethanol.free.fr
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visit: http://super-ethanol.fr to ride to E85! with a classic car!
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by Jamba Juice » 28/07/07, 15:07

So since you asked me I give you the address of the provisional site: www.euroflex-e85.fr.
I went to do a full 50/50 at the Part Dieu station in Lyon with a mini cooper and thought month is that happiness! On all the plans! The little one didn't even hesitate to start this morning when we were below 15 °. It promises when I have the Euroflex EV6 kit which should arrive in August.
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eth85
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189 to 15 dec => no more than 250 instead of 500




by eth85 » 15/12/07, 15:44

Hello,

We were promised 500 pumps at the end of 2007 and there are currently only 189 (source http://ethanol-e85.fr ).

Even with a very big effort, it is very unlikely that we will reach 250. On that, yes it is a failure.
For the E85 itself, I'm not sure, but it's not the gold rush promised.

In addition the Senate has decided to increase the taxes on the E85, this is not to improve its dissemination.

The average pump price in France is 0,8321 euros and this is expected to increase.

You can follow its average price here: http://ethanol-e85.fr/prix_ethanol_E85.html

: Mrgreen:
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Everything about ethanol E85 on http://ethanol-e85.fr

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