Petrol Conversion Kit to E85

crude vegetable oil, diester, bio-ethanol or other biofuels, or fuel of vegetable origin ...
Nikolian
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I understand econologic
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Registration: 22/02/07, 09:13
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by Nikolian » 08/03/07, 23:41

Good following following this solicitation,
I will give you my hypothesis:

On a Flex Fuel car there is a Lambda sensor in the tank, which gives the percentage of oxygen contained in the fuel.
Since SP95 does not contain oxygen and ethanol contains oxygen, it is possible to know the percentage of ethanol and to adapt the injection to this percentage.

In the case of a Flex Fuel case added there is no lambda probe in the tank. Then I think that the box analyzes the data received by the lambda probe of the exhaust, it compares the percentage of oxygen received with the percentage of normal oxygen and deduces the percentage of ethanol.
It is thus possible to analyze the percentage of ethanol at startup to correct the behavior of the injection all along the path.

Again, this is a hypothesis, it remains to be verified.
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Other
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by Other » 09/03/07, 02:13

Hello
Then I think that the box analyzes the data received by the lambda probe of the exhaust, it compares the percentage of oxygen received with the percentage of normal oxygen and deduces the percentage of ethanol.


Fortunately you wrote (I think) because When you know exactly how a probe works (Oxygen sensor)
it's hard to believe that you'll be able to determine the% Ethanol mix and gasoline that the engine has just burned.
The sensor measures the rate of oxygen in the exhaust that's all.
and it transmits it opposite a voltage prefixed is 0,45 volts
Corresponding to 14,7 for gasoline the only one is changing either the output signal of the probe or the 0,45 control volts. for the rest ignition the knock sensor does the job
All the control systems work according to this principle, we take a signal of feeb back (probe) voltage or pulsation and we oppose it to a fixed signal, it stops correcting when the equation is a 0 is a to say in equilibrium
In our case when the lambda probe does not provide a signal of 0,45 volt it corrects on the injection and if it exceeds 0,45volt it corrects in the other direction.

Andre
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Nikolian
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Location: France




by Nikolian » 09/03/07, 09:28

Andre wrote:it's hard to believe that you'll be able to determine the% Ethanol mix and gasoline that the engine has just burned.
The sensor measures the rate of oxygen in the exhaust that's all.


Yeah, it measures the oxygen level in the exhaust.
Burning ethanol will release more oxygen than gasoline.
So if at start the oxygen level is measured, it is compared with the normal rate (100% SP95), after an equation (solved by the flex calculator) we must be able to find the percentage of Ethanol.
With 0% Ethanol I have A% oxygen
I know that ethanol releases by burning B times more oxygen than gasoline
I have X% oxygen, what is my percentage of Ethanol?
I am not mathy, but it seems viable.

I am asked my opinion, I give it to you, but the best would be to address directly to the companies FullFlex and ABCesso
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Christophe
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by Christophe » 09/03/07, 10:19

Nikolian wrote:In the case of a Flex Fuel case added there is no lambda probe in the tank. Then I think that the box analyzes the data received by the lambda probe of the exhaust, it compares the percentage of oxygen received with the percentage of normal oxygen and deduces the percentage of ethanol.


No, because this% of residual O2 depends on the quality of the mixture (stoichiometric or not) and the combustion that you take wood, diesel, hydrogen, it will be impossible for you to say by analyzing the O2 Exhaust gas from which fuel you left because it is precisely this probe that determines the mixture ... See the explanation I gave in bold above ...

Concerning the "lambda" probe in the tank, I very much doubt it (lambda = gas probe) but there is surely another sensor can be of the pH or electrical conductivity type? I don't know enough about the physicochemical differences between gasoline and ethanol to judge.

Do you think that it would not be simply a refractometer or an ethometer? Who measures the amount ... of alcohol ... Exactly? : Mrgreen:
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Christophe
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by Christophe » 09/03/07, 10:22

Nikolian wrote:I know that ethanol releases by burning B times more oxygen than gasoline
I have X% oxygen, what is my percentage of Ethanol?
I am not mathy, but it seems viable.


It's true you're right we can imagine regular "test" cycles (we inject at fixed richness and we measure the residual O2 that gives an approximation of the fuel used) but neither good for the engine nor good for pollution. ..I do not know if this is the solution chosen for the flex kit and vehicle but it would not surprise (it is the cheapest)
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Nikolian
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by Nikolian » 09/03/07, 15:19

I am only a car user, well unable to fix anything if something goes wrong.

I am interested in the Kit, to make the right choice, but technically as it works.

I saw that the ABCesso Kit was connected to the lambda probe while the flextek was not, and I deduced that it had to use the information of the probe. I have not planned to build one tomorrow, just install it will be an adventure for me, and so if I can find an installer near me, it suits me.

The Experts is yours to play, explain us
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Nikolian
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by Nikolian » 13/03/07, 09:57

Flex-e85.net launches its Auto Kit, this is the ABCso Auto FFV
This kit has an additional connection to FullFlex
a cable is connected to the lambda probe.
It's better, or not, if someone can bring their knowledge to the top.

So for a petrol car 4 cylinders
The kit Excluding installation

http://www.echomeca.com
FullFuel Automatic Kit (565 Euros)
http://flex-e85.net
ABCesso Automatic Kit (598 Euros)
FlexTek Manual Kit (420 Euros)
http://www.borel.fr
BorE85 Automatic Kit (580 Euros)
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Nikolian
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Registration: 22/02/07, 09:13
Location: France




by Nikolian » 12/06/07, 21:25

Hello everybody
I update the list of sellers and installers
The prices are all around 600 Euros.

Ask for installation, some may even come to your home for installation at 60 Euros
Price depending on installer and your location.

They are professionals registered in the commercial register.
The operation is legal, and does not require a new homologation of the vehicle.

The 4 cylinder kit Excluding installation

code: Select all

http://www.borel.fr

FullFlex Automatic Kit (580 Euros)

code: Select all

http://www.echomeca.com

FullFuel Automatic Kit (565 Euros)

code: Select all

http://flex-e85.net

ABCesso Automatic Kit (598 Euros)
FlexTek Manual Kit (420 Euros)

code: Select all

http://www.fullflex.fr

FullFlex Automatic Kit (598 Euros)

code: Select all

http://www.seeflex.fr

FullFlex Automatic Kit (598 Euros)

The Kit ABCesso calibrates itself, and adjusts to the fair thanks to its connection to the Lambda probe, runs from 0 to 100% ethanol

The Kit Fullflex must be calibrated, then it adapts to the mixture of 0 100 ethanol%

The Kit FlexTek is manual we select <50 or> 50% Ethanol, it is your electronic injection which makes the intermediate settings.
It is less precise, and consume more than an automatic kit.
Last edited by Nikolian the 12 / 06 / 07, 22: 39, 1 edited once.
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petromax
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by petromax » 12/06/07, 21:57

Nikolian wrote:FlexTek Manual Kit (420 Euros)

code: Select all

http://www.fullflex.fr


The introductory page reads "Ethanol is an environmentally friendly biofuel that does not affect the ozone layer." : Shock:

For me, not even worth going further : Cheesy:
I do not question the quality of the material, but just doubts about the commercial speech of the dealer (it seems to me that it also officiates in the field of the HVP ...)

NB: FYI, greenhouse gases do not affect the ozone layer, unlike CFCs ...
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Céline OLERON
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new bio fuels




by Céline OLERON » 13/06/07, 08:54

helo,

I have in my bags a process that can limit the cost of production of bio fuels.

it will be made from our waste that will be methanol.

the pb is that it exists only on paper and I need a center to set up proto.

so if there are students among you who have an engineering project to mount .... think of me

@ +
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Céline OLERON
Nature Animator : Idea:
Courbevoie

 


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