Agro-Biofuels: Overall Performance

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Elec
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by Elec » 16/02/09, 16:15

Christophe, I do not share this opinion at all: I think we will have to work to preserve our freedom to move. The potential of renewable energies is very important, individual or collective mobility solutions respectful of the environment are there, develop them is job generator.
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by Christophe » 16/02/09, 16:24

Freedom of movement? Should not generalize too quickly ...

Is it the freedom to have 100 km a day in a 6 m² metal prison to work?

The average work-to-sleep distance is 23 km in France ... it's huge, 46 km per day!

With a cost per km real (all inclusive: purchase, fuel, insurance ...) of 0.3 / km € it is already 13.8 € which leave in loss SECHE for the worker just to go to work! For a smicar it's almost 2h work per day, just to pay the right to go ... work! That's it being FREE ???? The fact that the energy is less dirty (betterplace) will not change much at this cost ... because at best you have cheaper energy but for the rest ...

Strange notion of freedom so ... :?:
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by Elec » 16/02/09, 16:42

If you remove that car from this worker, I'm not sure he will have won in freedom.

Some people opt for public transport. Others prefer individual transport.

The problem is our dependence on oil, not the displacement itself.

Solutions exist to get out of this dependence while preserving our level of comfort (freedom to move, to treat us, to access information and culture, etc.). The development of these solutions is generating jobs.
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by Christophe » 16/02/09, 17:32

Elec wrote:If you remove that car from this worker, I'm not sure he will have won in freedom.


Oh? And if you take away 2h of road a day, for an equivalent salary: it will be less free?

Be careful not to go wrong! I do not trial the car but overdue as we see too much now ... and the state is very complicit in defiscalising ...
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by Elec » 16/02/09, 17:52

Christophe wrote:And if you take away 2h of road a day, for an equivalent salary: it will be less free?


He is free to choose what suits him best.
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by Flytox » 16/02/09, 19:38

Bonjour Christophe
Christophe wrote:Be careful not to go wrong! I do not trial the car but overdue as we see too much now ... and the state is very complicit in defiscalising ...


In the equation do not forget to enter the housing parameter. Few people live in perpetuity for the simple pleasure of making miles tax free or no. I guess for a lot of people, we live far away because we did not have much choice or the means to buy / rent closer to work .....
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by Christophe » 16/02/09, 20:38

I have not forgotten ...

The price of rent is generally fixed in relation to the salary level of a region: otherwise nothing could be rented ...

As for the property it's different but strictly nothing requires you to buy a house at 50km from your job ... or not to change jobs ...

Everything is a question of compromise!
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by minguinhirigue » 16/02/09, 22:54

+ 1 for Christophe: being able to say no to the car is a freedom that you do not know how to take. May the crisis teach us certain things.

And elec, if you're talking about freedom of movement, knowing that any individual freedom stops when it compromises collective freedoms, and knowing that the car today does not allow to ensure the freedom of movement of our children, should we stop all our vehicles until a sustainable alternative is developed? ;)

As mentioned by some members, the answer to the problem of the consumption of fuels, or the energy needed for travel is also linked to related fields: housing near workplaces, compact cities, carpooling and alternative trips. .

In my opinion, it is a question of slightly changing the service we have (the comfort?), Not to lose it, but to modify it: to live without a car can be lived as horrible, and yet, if the city is organized to , to discover a beautiful unpolluted city on foot is nothing less than a luxury that is paid only on vacation!

Reducing the need for individual car trips is a priority with which one could imagine viable 2nde and 3th generation agrofuels.

PS: Elec, for the forests in the place of which are produced agrofuels of 1ère generation, yes it is a stupid massacre ... But it is not necessarily the case of all the means of production of methane and 'oil.
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by Elec » 16/02/09, 23:26

minguinhirigue wrote: And elec, if you're talking about freedom of movement, knowing that any individual freedom stops when it compromises collective freedoms, and knowing that the car today does not allow to ensure the freedom of movement of our children, should we stop all our vehicles until a sustainable alternative is developed? ;)


I find the question interesting. Indeed, current transport, based on oil, is not sustainable and further contribute to the aggravation of the climate crisis and pose enormous health problems (car pollution).

I do not think, however, that vehicles should be banned, but that we must pass as quickly as possible to green electro-mobility (wind, solar, etc.), individual and collective.

NB - The best way to recover waste is to produce biogas, a biogas used in CHP + electricity. Burning biomethane in a heat engine is not a mass solution (3 Mtep max in France) and it is not relevant in terms of energy efficiency.
We have to get out of the engine. (on the other hand, Stirling block for extrafor some situations, ok; for rent).
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by Elec » 24/02/09, 18:19

ScienceDaily (Jan. 29, 2009)
Food Versus Biofuels: Environmental and Economic Costs

(...) David Pimentel and his colleagues from Cornell University in New York State highlighting the problems related to biofuels. Not only are these renewable energies inefficient, they are also economically and environmentally costly and nowhere near as productive as projected. Their findings are published in Springer's journal Human Ecology. (...)

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/20 ... 074830.htm


ID:
Pimentel D et al. Food versus biofuels: environmental and economic costs. Human Ecology
Study available online here:
http://www.springerlink.com/content/47705417208688m7/

conclusions:

- low energetic efficiency
- heavy environmental impact
- expensive
- the figures announced (yields etc.) are not achieved anywhere, far from it
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