Laigret project: documentation

[Christophe]

Thank you for these docs which allow to "put the laigret project back on track", it seems to be of a good level (form / substance).

I just hope that I will understand something

I will look at this in detail!

[C moa]

Thank you for these docs which allow to "put the laigret project back on track", it seems to be of a good level (form / substance).

I just hope that I will understand something

I will look at this in detail!

These are two interesting and accessible documents for everyone I think.

They strayed a bit from the Laigret method, but at the same time I had not drawn up precise "specifications" (just a discussion with their tutor).

However, they confirm that it is possible to synthesize hydrocarbons (liquid or gaseous) from organic matter using bacteria.
What is also interesting is that, on one side or the other, the necessary treatments are addressed upstream and downstream of the reaction.

These are points that will be important for the future.

I think to ask them for a new study for the coming back to school in order to go into more detail on:
- perfringens and gas gangrene in order to understand more precisely how the tissue destruction mechanism works and especially to see the pathogenic aspect of the toxins emitted;
- the technical and legal conditions which must be respected to set up a laboratory in which one would play with the perfringens (or close cousins);

FYI, I tried to call the IP of Tunis but the person was not available and then I went on vacation. I will relaunch in September.

[Christophe]

They strayed a bit from the Laigret method, but at the same time I had not drawn up precise "specifications" (just a discussion with their tutor).

This is what I thought I understood at the first fast reading but one of the 1 still evokes this track well.

I think that, in the absence of data on Laigret it is a little normal (with us to launch the asap experiment!).

These documents are an excellent basis for "upgrading" bacterial fermentation for energy use!

I think to ask them for a new study for the coming back to school in order to go into more detail on:
- perfringens and gas gangrene in order to understand more precisely how the tissue destruction mechanism works and especially to see the pathogenic aspect of the toxins emitted;
- the technical and legal conditions which must be respected to set up a laboratory in which one would play with the perfringens (or close cousins);

Do you think they will have the means (given the lack of concrete information found on the Laigret method)? Apart from going to experimentation, I don't see how to do it there ...

FYI, I tried to call the IP of Tunis but the person was not available and then I went on vacation. I will relaunch in September.

Okay! It's summer for everyone!

[C moa]

Thank you C Moa for these documents ...

I noted in the first that there would be a "hybrid" process mixing thermal and biological lysis effects ...

In fact in the recovery of biomass, there are 2 schools: gasifiers / thermolysers and digesters by bacteria ... It would seem that once in between exist ... Idea

I for my part have a bias for thermolysis followed by the synthesis of methanol.

You are absolutely right, there are "hybrid" treatments.

It seems a bit removed from what we read in the reports on Laigret but since its basic raw material was "saponified" olive oil (ie in the form of soap). Maybe this pre-treatment is necessary whatever the shape of the substrate (I was hoping not because it is expensive and impacting).

In the second report, we would essentially obtain methane by biological means ...

Indeed, but remember that in the example cited, it requires the intervention of several different microorganisms for different stages whereas if I am not mistaken with Laigret, everything was done with perfringens alone (if it is true it is strong this perfringens anyway ). Another advantage of the Laigret method, the absence of production of H2S and therefore of the treatments that go with it.

I also wonder what do we mean by "oil" in these two documents: it is not clear whether it is alcohols, alkanes, or even fatty acids ("oil").

I ask myself the same question but since these are still confidential procedures, I think that they did not have access to the information. In any case, what is really interesting is to have the cut of the product.

Anyway, I think we are only at the beginning of the start of the startup, but there is surely enough to experiment

It's been a while since we could start experimenting but we still have to find a lab and competent and motivated people .... I crossed my fingers with the IP of Tunis, they didn't say yes but they didn't say no ....

[C moa]

I think to ask them for a new study for the coming back to school in order to go into more detail on:
- perfringens and gas gangrene in order to understand more precisely how the tissue destruction mechanism works and especially to see the pathogenic aspect of the toxins emitted;
- the technical and legal conditions which must be respected to set up a laboratory in which one would play with the perfringens (or close cousins);

Do you think they will have the means (given the lack of concrete information found on the Laigret method)? Apart from going to experimentation, I don't see how to do it there ...

Apart from the general information, personally I have found nothing really specific on the net on the process of gas gangrene (I also may have been badly sought ...). As students, they have access to BUs, particularly those of medicine, therefore:
- With the first point, we could understand how perfringens acts at the level of the disease and then draw parallels with the Laigret method (composition of the gases emitted during gangrene, the presence of toxins in these gases, T ° conditions, pressures ...).

I too would like us to experiment quickly, but since perfringens is a pathogen, this requires us to take more precautions:
- With the second point, this would allow us to better understand the experimental phase in the event that no specialized laboratory wants / can take care of it. We would know on what basis to look if we wanted to launch these experiments on their own (with competent people of course).
It would also be a first step to identify suppliers and start to cost such a lab or the upgrading of an existing lab that would not be fully equipped.

[Remundo]

For biology, I cannot help you, I am a perfect neophyte

But I think any serious biologist could give you a lot of information about Perfringens.

Sionon, I agree with C Moa's remarks.

@+

[Christophe]

I have a bug on 3 images on page 17 of the 1st doc at the beginning of 3) a) Thermal Conversion Process:


You too?

[Remundo]

yes, that's top simplified huh? this is pedagogy

otherwise, it seems to me that the details are in text below, and it is besides this process that caught my attention since it would be hybrid: thermal & biological lysis ...

Here is the ref:

http://www.changingworldtech.com/what/index.asp

[Christophe]

Ah funny, by zooming in .pdf we see the image appear! In short I had never seen this kind of bug!

[Remundo]

Oh you know, IT / electronics are limitless for crashes ...

Otherwise here is the statement of our student friends:
-----

Phase 2: It is in this phase that the hydrocarbon chains of partially depolymerized organic materials will undergo thermal cracking, i.e.
transformation into simple hydrocarbon molecules. In the absence of information probably due to industrial confidentiality, we can assume that it is in this
part of the reactor where the bacteria responsible for anaerobic fermentation are found, which are probably of the Perfringens type.
In the reactor we are in conditions of high temperature (~ 500 ° C) and low pressure, and the main reaction is decarboxylation.
This stage is sometimes assimilated to a coking stage, that is to say the production of coke. Indeed, among the products leaving this reaction, there is a large amount of
mineral carbon and the conditions for obtaining them are similar: reactions at high temperature and low pressure in an anaerobic environment.
The outgoing product is a mixture of simple hydrocarbon, crude oil and gas, mainly methane.

----

Me, I let them guess because it seems unlikely ...

Methane is typically a product of low temperature and high pressure thermolysis (without the need for biological action).

It is at higher temperature and low pressure that the formation of CO and H2 is favored.

Which are very nice because: CO + 2 H2 -> CH3OH with the catalysts that are going well ...