Bioethanol - what it costs and what it gives

crude vegetable oil, diester, bio-ethanol or other biofuels, or fuel of vegetable origin ...
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gegyx
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by gegyx » 31/07/08, 18:45

"Humor mode"

These gentlemen would they have an honest solution to offer me (and no technical gibberish please!) Women want something concrete!


That's good, I have your man, sensitive and attentive, not hairy for a penny, a funny bird, rare ...

Capt_Maloche and its idea of ​​depollution and economy, on old fuel boiler.

https://www.econologie.com/forums/ameliorati ... t5172.html


Do not dream, you need patience, a minimum of understanding and knack.

We are not in an ideal world!

Gegyx / a member who lacks the main one: an oil boiler.

:D
Last edited by gegyx the 31 / 07 / 08, 18: 47, 1 edited once.
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by the middle » 31/07/08, 18:46

Hazardin,
I will not leave you in error, in the link that I suggest you read a little, you will see that I am absolutely not a "chauvinist" : Cheesy: tease a bit, it's Flytox's fault : Cheesy: (he inspires me with his jokes)
https://www.econologie.com/forums/entraide-e ... t5589.html
And welcome, yes :D
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by Hasardine » 31/07/08, 19:04

at "lejustemilieu"

"woman also know how to make humor! haha! and tease a little!"

to "gegyx"

is this solution not likely to bring me trouble with the guarantee of my boiler !! she is only 4 years old and certainly at a super yield, but being rented, I fear the wrath of my owner!
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by gegyx » 31/07/08, 19:37

Well, the system seems removable.
Neither seen nor known, confuses ...

But if the boiler is recent, therefore, a good performance, there is nothing to do.

If you don't want to change anything? then... : Shock:

Ask the question in the subject to Maloche
---
You are not a woman to be impressed by the wrath of the owner, anyway!
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Hasardine
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by Hasardine » 31/07/08, 21:16

if it is neither seen nor known, that suits me!

but I do not like to break what is not mine! (I don't like breaking what's mine either!)

in fact, I am mainly looking for an alternative solution to using my boiler!
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by the middle » 31/07/08, 21:54

Hazardine, you have already gone through the index ? :? I know there is a lot to read, but you can make yourself a personal opignon, with what has already been said..and written ..
When I get bored, I walk around the site, and I read ...
You have to have time ... not always obvious.
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by Flytox » 31/07/08, 22:42

Hello unfairly
lejustemilieu wrote:... in the link that I suggest you read a little, you will see that I am absolutely not a "chauvinist" : Cheesy: tease a bit, it's Flytox's fault : Cheesy: (he inspires me with his jokes)


I finally.....: Shock:: Mrgreen:


Tell me, weren't you the one who told me this one ?:

How can we give more freedom to a woman?
- By expanding his kitchen! : Mrgreen:
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by Hasardine » 01/08/08, 09:45

Flytox,

On the joke no comment, but its we confined all the architects 4 hours a day in a kitchinette of 2m2 they would understand the torture they inflict on the inhabitants of certain buildings!

for my part I love to cook (more and more) since I have a large kitchen and that I could put a table to chat while I cook!

it's even better when the pleasure is shared! (I was talking about cooking)
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by the middle » 01/08/08, 11:01

:D fate is sometimes bizarre:
When I transformed my house, I made sure that the kitchen was not isolated from the rest of the house: no doors, visible everywhere ... in short, a pleasant kitchen ...
The height, when I am lucky to have my wife at home (2 months per year max :? ), I'm the one who's beating the kitchen. : Cry:
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by Christophe » 01/08/08, 11:23

New little analysis from the author ...

THE LADY OF ADEME AND BIOFUELS

Superb example of administrative parity, the lady of the Deme, is in all respects in conformity with the male model in the technical, accounting and fiscal fields. Same uncultured sixty eightard, same tongue of wood, same refusal of the obvious and of physical and financial realities.

It speaks on the airwaves as much on the bluff of the greenhouse effect as on biofuels. In her last intervention she explained that ethanol does not have the same properties as so-called "ethyl" alcohol, especially when, mixed with gasoline, it becomes bi or diethanol.

According to this lady, not only would we save beet farming, but we would reduce carbon dioxide emissions and save a lot of money.

To answer correctly, numbers should be aligned and that is tiring to read. We can try to replace them with words.

Plowing at the pump

Before taking the "ethanol" out of the still, there was considerable work and energy expenditure.
The tractor which plows, sows and fattens to end up pulling and then transporting it to the trucks which continue towards the "sugar factory" converted into a distillery. That's a good amount of fuel. If we add everything that the AZF plant consumes to produce the ammonitrates that fatten the beet land, we get a lot of calories.
We haven't finished. The factory will wash and grind, knead, heat and press to extract the fermentable juice loaded with sucrose (sugar). Even, if the yeasts work without salaries or unions, they will consume 33% of the carbon to produce the carbon dioxide that sparkles champagne, and the eyes of our ladies.
These yeasts will produce alcohol, up to the limit of their poisoning which is around 15%, in molasses, diluted accordingly. Like what yeasts are less fragile than men who support less than half a percent of their mass, before the lethal coma.
It is not yet finished, because the alcohol-water mixture, limited to 12 ° for productivity reasons, will have to be distilled so as to remove 84% of water by evaporation. The energy required is very easy to calculate, but it is even more precise to use the global figures of the cost accounting of the production. In all, it will have taken more than a liter of petroleum equivalent to produce a liter of alcohol and it will take 1,56 liters of alcohol to give the energy of a liter of gasoline.
Of course, by burning this expensive product, we will still produce carbon dioxide, which should cause pain to the illusionists of greenhouse gases.

If we reason, without taking into account the tax system, as our Frizzy Minister of the Economy and Finance did, badly "educated" by his customs service, we can produce the illusion, if that is the goal sought.
If you are a Director of the competent government ADEME, you must investigate the distillers, analyze the accounts and conclude on the comparison of comparable things.
During his radio conference on this subject, Captain HADDOCK (of the Flanders-Artois section in Belgium) described alcohol as "the sailor's enemy". He could have added "enemy of the taxpayer".

What remains of these rantings with so few figures? Only the conclusion of the old peasant:

"If it's not unfortunate to burn food"

Are we still going to be told about HUNGER IN THE WORLD?

For those who like calculations

We will retain the following atomic masses which serve as the basis of all calculations: C = 12 - O = 16 - H = 1
It will thus be noted that the C12H22O11 sugar sees its "mole" weigh: 342 grams which, by hydrolyzing, will give 2 (C6H12O6) of glucose with a mass of 360 grams.

In turn, the mole of glucose will ferment, releasing 2 moles of ethyl alcohol (C2H5OH = 46g) and two moles of carbon dioxide CO2.

In summary, it is easy to calculate that 46 grams of alcohol, before being burned in the engines, have already produced 44 grams of CO2.

By burning, these same 46 g of alcohol will still produce 88 g of CO2,
or in total 3x44 = 132 g of CO2 CO2 emission rate 132/46 = 2,87 g per gram of alcohol.

Gasoline, which can be reduced to the benzene which constitutes it in the majority, has the formula C6H6 therefore a molar mass of 78 grams which will produce 264 grams of CO2 therefore CO2 emission rate:
264/78 = 3,38 grams per gram of gasoline

However it takes 1,56 grams of alcohol to produce the energy of a single gram of gasoline which goes back to the, CO2 level of alcohol to 2,87 X 1,56 = 4,48.

Want simpler?
1) - to balance the masses between alcohol and benzene, the coefficient will be applied to alcohol:
78 / 46 = 1,696
2) - to balance the calorific values ​​we will multiply this figure by 1,56 or:
1 X 696 = 1,56

To the 6 CO2 produced by the combustion of benzene, we will oppose the 3 x 2,646 = 7,94 CO2 of the alcohol.
Conclusion: 7,94 / 6 = 1,32 to the advantage of benzene.

(At equivalent mass), ALCOHOL GENERATES 1,32 TIMES MORE CO2 THAN GASOLINE

If we add to this all the CO2 produced upstream to make sugar, there is no doubt that the CO2 waste emitted with alcohol more than largely exceeds that obtained with petroleum products.

Visit the internet and watch the verbose and abundant rantings of the ADEME on the subject. It looks like the Giscardo-European constitution adapted to scientific disciplines.

Through a dialectical smoke screen we are witnessing a demonstration essentially aimed at making people believe in the good deal.

How can superb senior civil servants from prestigious schools of the republic, such as Sciences Po or the ENA, thus take the brave French for fools?
Spread nonsense like greenhouse gases; the heat pump (this is polytechnic (see SIROTA and the Inspectorate of Finances) is not worthy of a country which, in the past, was at the forefront of science.

This is how we see the triumph of AIRBUS (planes made upside down with sausages) end in an incredible financial panic and the list goes on of the fantastic waste that we owe to the dishonest lack of culture of our leaders.

Francois TATARD
Last edited by Christophe the 01 / 08 / 08, 12: 07, 2 edited once.
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