A STIRLING profitable to himself?

[teatime]

I'm not an expert, but this stuff is a bit disturbing!

http://www.monotherme.com/index.php?c=diathermane

What do you think?

The idea is to remove thermal energy from a gas (at constant pressure) in order to restore it to constant volume.

As a result the gas pressure has increased.
The use of a counter-current heat exchanger is the key to the device.

To achieve maximum efficiency, it is necessary to balance the quantities of heat that circulate in the isobar and in the isochore. The biggest difficulty seems to be there: how to balance them?

The device of figure N ° 7 seems to be a perfect solution to this problem: the difference in quantity of heat between the isochore and the isobaric while the pressure is increased is compensated by the difference in quantity of heat while the pressure is lowered.

If it works then it's huge! The yield should be very high.

The heat pump seems to operate on a similar principle. It is easier to understand.
http://monotherme.com/index.php?c=monotherme

[the middle]

DD, it makes a dirty noise your thing
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fMoRkEff ... re=related

[dedeleco]

DD, it makes a dirty noise your thing

since nothing moves mechanically, these are the oscillations of the gas at a few hundred hertz, As in a heated organ with spontaneous oscillations !! It is the sound of a sinusoidal sound generator with few harmonics (unusual), a pure sound and not a dirty noise !!!.

It's not my thing, it's mostly the stuff of lots of creative people, I only draw attention to the thermoacoustics which generates useful work, just with a pipe of good shape heated without piston nor mechanics, using the cycle of Stirling during the oscillations and fine metal wires like fast heat exchanger !!

It is similar to the fludyne pump but, only air which oscillates, without water, because the inertia of the gas replaces the inertia of the water and therefore the frequency is much higher.

It is important to adapt the inertias with resonant volumes to have maximum efficiency.

The interest is simplicity, no mechanics, no piston, sealing, etc., therefore robustness and reliability.

Theoretical understanding is complex, because complex thermoacoustic waves in tubes of complex geometry, with many possible variants, but the mechanical realization is much simpler and the huge possibilities totally underestimated.
see :
http://www.io.com/~frg/

A piston Stirling is like why make it simple when you can make it complicated ?????


the plans and details of a simple realization:
http://www.w-haag.de/
yield not max.

[dedeleco]

The monotherm tips are very interesting, to study, and above all to calculate with care, with the real losses (heavy work).

Once understood, it would be possible to do the same in thermoacoustics maybe ???
The piston would be replaced by the inertia of the gases, if well thought out ???????????

Commercial static thermoacoustic refrigerators, which make cold with hot, with a first thermoacoustic generator, with the hot giving mechanical oscillations which are used for the second to make cold, seem to me rather similar in principle, to make colder than initially, this without mechanical piston and sealing problems in motion. ?????????????????

[phil53]

dedeleco you who seems to understand best what transforms the wave into electricity?
Is it the displacement of a magnet in a coil?
No doubt not since you say that there is no movement to transform the wave into electricity
Or the pressure that makes a piezoelectric oscillate?
In this case it takes a lot of pressure because if a piezo makes electricity with a small displacement it takes an enormous force.

[dedeleco]

magnet in a coil

rather very light speaker type coil oscillating quickly in the air gap of a magnet at the audible frequency. The magnet is too heavy to move enough.
A well-designed piezoelectric will also work (conventional in ultrasound because it is small), but in both cases what matters is the impedance transformation between the waves and the conversion system, same problem as for a speaker, similar to antennas radio waves, with the same problem of small frequencies which require large dimensions, comparable to a quarter of the wavelength, even the piezzo will work, piezo multilayer in bending (lever arm effect) admits large displacements (sold cheap like piezo speaker !!).
This has been well known to specialists since the early days of loudspeakers and ultrasound.
The difficulties are not there but in the thermoacoustic part to have a good output, heat exchange and oscillations with good output (again problem of impedances).

One difficulty is that the high frequencies require very fine exchangers (micron fixed by the diffusion time 4mm to 1Hertz for air, and 10Khertz 0,04mm max, always the same physics of diffusion, inverse of the square root of the frequency! ) for small conversions, that www.io.com seems to have realized in a printed circuit in its tiles quite efficient.

[dedeleco]

A basic course with thermoacoustic demonstration with other basic experiences in other fields:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SGL5kLioRrU
To be tested with glass tube and steel wool or other metal, conductor perpendicular to the tube only.
try with resonator (bigger tube) which improves the yield.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2PwsP3qR ... er&list=UL
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BzNlo2_ANiE
And refrigeration very far from the optimum:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yJepPYZb ... re=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=__UhEF8hghk&NR=1
note the method of electrical excitation with a loudspeaker.

Finally, in-depth studies:
http://www.mecheng.adelaide.edu.au/avc/thermoacoustics/

[teatime]

The monotherm tips are very interesting, to study, and above all to calculate with care, with the real losses (heavy work).

Once understood, it would be possible to do the same in thermoacoustics maybe ???
The piston would be replaced by the inertia of the gases, if well thought out ???????????

Commercial static thermoacoustic refrigerators, which make cold with hot, with a first thermoacoustic generator, with the hot giving mechanical oscillations which are used for the second to make cold, seem to me rather similar in principle, to make colder than initially, this without mechanical piston and sealing problems in motion. ?????????????????

What is crazy is that, indeed (!), We have a temperature higher than that of the hot spring WITHOUT spending mechanical energy.
That's crazy!
Ditto for the appearance of a temperature lower than that of the cold source: no expenditure of mechanical energy.
It's incredible!
The device is so simple to understand and it is so clear that it works as explained on the reference document ... that I have my arms falling from it ...
How is it possible that we have a Maxwell demon there when thermodynamic theory says, says, that it is impossible?
I find nothing to oppose their explanations ...
A way should be found to subject this invention to the study of competent persons. Here, one cannot get rid of this invention by a laconic "we know very well that it does not work". It is imperative to find THE reason, the error of reasoning, the hidden detail, which proves that they are wrong. Because it is too obvious that they are right.
This is a real challenge that should be launched to the scientific community.
It is a case to be studied, to be studied.
I think we need to talk about it around us. If we know scientists who are knowledgeable in thermodynamics, then we can make them think. It would be very interesting to know their response.
The document:
http://www.monotherme.com/HEAT%20PUMP%2 ... NCIPLE.pdf

It might be interesting to create a dedicated thread for this question.

[dedeleco]

we have here a demon of Maxwell whereas the thermodynamic theory says, affirms, that it is impossible?

No, no Maxwell demon, thermodynamics is perfectly respected, because two sources of heat, one cold and one hot !!

With these 2 sources, the monotherm does real mechanical work of compression (or expansion) of gas which is used to change its temperature, in addition (or less) to a hot (or cold) source.

So nothing extraordinary, like a Maxwell demon, which should work with a single source, sorting the molecules according to their speed (door that opens or closes according to the speed), which then creates from a single source at the start, two sources, a hot (fast molecules) and cold (slow molecules), and which collides with real thermodynamic and also quantum microscopic impossibilities, much more constraining and complex, since we can make a pseudo-demon of Maxwell with macroscopic ping pong balls but not with microscopic molecules !!


The difficulty of the monotherm is the losses by non-ideality, by thermal conductivity, etc., as for a Stirling.

[teatime]

No, no Maxwell demon, thermodynamics is perfectly respected, because two sources of heat, one cold and one hot !!

This remark does not explain the amplification of the deltaT.
Amplification of the delta T WITHOUT EXPENDITURE OF MECHANICAL ENERGY
Basically, there is no difference with what the Maxwell demon does: separate the hot from the cold.

With these 2 sources, the monotherm does real mechanical work of compression (or expansion) of gas which is used to change its temperature, in addition (or less) to a hot (or cold) source.

WITHOUT EXPENDITURE OF MECHANICAL ENERGY

So nothing extraordinary, like a Maxwell demon, which should work with a single source, sorting the molecules according to their speed (door that opens or closes according to the speed), which then creates from a single source at the start, two sources, a hot (fast molecules) and cold (slow molecules), and which collides with real thermodynamic and also quantum microscopic impossibilities, much more constraining and complex, since we can make a pseudo-demon of Maxwell with macroscopic ping pong balls but not with microscopic molecules.

Cite me a device equivalent or comparable to the heat pump in question SVP (amplification of the deltaT without expenditure of mechanical energy (or birth of a deltaT)).

In addition, you seem not to have looked closely at what they can do with the SECONDARY deltaT on the cold side.