Ventilator led toilets for toilets to 2 different floors?

[r2d2]

Hello

(I hope to be in the right section)

I will install a toilet in the basement by connecting it to the upstairs wc
the descent is made of cast iron, I see no other solution than to fire it and put a pvc of 100
knowing that my wc in the basement is 6 meters and if I respect a slope of 2 cm per meter
will I need an aerator as I read here and there?
and what exactly is an aerator? and where placed? I don't have one at home (house from the 60s)
please



Edit by modo: photo put on our image host

[dedeleco]

An aerator allows limit the piston effect of what is evacuated by the toilet after its siphon, big bundle of water and shit which pushes the air in front of it, compresses it and creates a depression behind which can empty the siphon too.
So you have to put after each WC, a hose of about 50mm up to the well ventilated roof which allows to evacuate this air which blocks otherwise.
With 2 toilets, this air from the jammed top toilet will try to escape through the bottom toilet with big gurgles and especially strong foul smells coming out of its siphon !!

[Christophe]

Yes for the aerator, it is to avoid what dedeleco says, it is especially valid if you have 100% vertical pipes (otherwise there is always a little air that remains above the pipes that are not 100 % vertical).

The upper WC can create a suppression in the lower one (if the downstream pipe is blocked, even partially or filled pit), the lower WC can create a depression in the upper one.

By cons I am not at all sure that the 2% slope is sufficient for an evacuation of toilets, precisely because there is solid.

With us we had 3 toilets: 1st, ground floor and cellar.

I deleted that of the cellar (which was not already used for much) because the last pipe (the one that arrives at the pit, the final) did not have a sufficient slope and that one day a plug fell trained (gradually I reassure you).

I let you imagine what happened at the level of the cellar toilet when the pipe was full !! Yuck ...

The unblocking was done mechanically, no chemical product could act effectively. Worse: I had to cut the pipe when it was not 100% empty because it was impossible to push the plug otherwise ... I'm not painting you a picture eh ...

The problem is definitively solved because the inertia, speed and pressure of the fall of the flush of the other 2 toilets prevents the materials from stagnating in this pipe (which is about 4 m).

Before part of the pressure could pass through the 3rd bowl (bubbles which appeared months before the problem).

When editing, I put a plug to pass a ferret eventually ... for 2 years no problem ...

[r2d2]

ok, so? ... did you see my drawing, 50 mm diameter vent or not? and where placed? one for the two toilets?
when at the slope, if it does not seem sufficient to you, I have read that above 2 cm per meter, the water descends faster than the paper
and there, there was risk of traffic jam .....
please

[Christophe]

In my opinion 1 vent upstairs would be sufficient ... since the conduct of the ground floor is horizontal ...

Where did you read the slope? Above 2% it gets blocked faster, wet but up to how many%? Because a 45 ° (100%) pipe never gets blocked ...

I am only explaining my personal experience: in my opinion 2% slope (which we have in our case when it gets blocked) it is insufficient for an evacuation of WC especially on 6 m long (which is long) ... An economic hunt does not help matters on this point of view! So 2% it may have been true with the 10 or 12L hunts of 20 years ago, with the 6 or 3L hunts ... must see ...

After nothing prevents you from doing tests in the garden with a new 6m hose ... and a few bits of PQ or other "material" ... In your place, that's what I would do before mounting the hose "Hard"...

[r2d2]

ok, 4 cm per meter is it good? because after I would be in another problem (height wc)

a last and not less "boring", the descent of origin is in cast iron of 100mm, the toilet of the basement will be connected in pvc of 100mm .... problem I see no other solution than to "break" the existing cast iron to assemble everything in pvc, in the region no store has or heard of a connection between pvc and cast iron.
an idea ?

[dedeleco]

connection between pvc and cast iron.

Unorthodox possibility: rubber fitting like on WC bowl, cement block or epoxy.

[swift2540]

A little bit of logic, a little bit of technique and everything works out ...
1) slope: it is inscribed on the elbows "at 90 °"
-pvc pipes = bends at 87 ° 30 = slope 2.5% / m
- PE / PP pipes = bends at 88 ° 30 = slope at 1.5% / m

2) ventilation: (well explained dedeleco)
-pvc pipes: compulsory primary and secondary ventilation, either by venting (beware, it is the direct sewer, it stinks, not very close to a window!) or with an 80mm aerator (a small 50mm is not enough).
- pe / pp pipes: primary ventilation compulsory, secondary ventilation unnecessary because 90mm wc outlet and 110mm horizontal pipe ==> is never filled (no piston effect). See the principle on Geberit evacuation. http://www.geberit.be/web/appl/be/wcmsbef.nsf/files/usr-pdf-%C3%A9vacuation_FR_low.pdf/$file/%C3%A9vacuation_FR_low.pdf
or on unipipe http://www.pipelife.com/media/be/PipeLife_Catalogus_2010.pdf
(on page 11/187, there are cast iron / pvc or pp fittings)

3) the corking:
diameter of a toilet (pipe): 90mm / 110mm. too small it clogs, too large (ex 140mm) it's badly rinsed and it clogs too!
hunting principle:
-3L = undocumented
-6L = with papers
A T with cap for possible unclogging is not superfluous ...

Petit HS: well no, 6m is not very long, how many villas are connected to the public sewer (street) and set back 15 / 20m or more? And horizontally, and 140 / 160mm? and with a slope of 1%? And it does not get blocked ??? Well no, because each storm / heavy rain comes to rinse everything properly ...

4)the cast iron / plastic connection:
THE tricky point!
Many solutions:
-If cast iron pipe = 100mm inside, work with 90mm pvc, fit it vertically 20cm then silicone sealant (or putty) for odors.
-If it is 100mm outside, you must start from a collar. Good luck with the disassembly, they were often connected with molten lead for sealing.
-Below your cast iron (underground) you certainly have a sandstone pipe (normally 110mm)? If you can go find it, would it be simpler?
-To not disassemble the cast iron on the height, you can either:
-see if you can get the unipipe fitting or if a pvc / stoneware "sewer" connection could be used.
-use a Nicoll straight toilet outlet
http://www.nicoll.be/fr_BE/catalogue/specialites-sanitaires/accessoires-wc-pvc.html

In short, a lot of things are possible, it's up to you to decide according to your technical skills / the equipment available / what is in place.
Good research!

[dedeleco]

The toilets with increasing diameter of piping, do not clog if you do not put tough tough stuff that resist water, like plaster (lived personally with a company that had emptied buckets of liquid plaster in the WC! !), with thick magazine papers, instead of the soft one for WC, etc ... !!

[Christophe]

dedeleco and my personal experience that I explained above: is it pipo then? I never put anything else in the toilet than what should be ... do I make a drawing?

ok, 4 cm per meter is it good? because after I would be in another problem (height wc)

a last and not less "boring", the descent of origin is in cast iron of 100mm, the toilet of the basement will be connected in pvc of 100mm .... problem I see no other solution than to "break" the existing cast iron to assemble everything in pvc, in the region no store has or heard of a connection between pvc and cast iron.
an idea ?

Yes I think 4% is better ... to check with the test in the garden when you have the 6m pipes!

For the connection it must be possible by tinkering a little and cleanly so that it lasts and that you have no leakage every 6 months!

As it is 100 on both sides, you have the change, you must be able to use a Y PVC fitting that you "siliconnerais" no? To be checked on the exact real diameters ...

Well no, because each storm / heavy rain comes to rinse everything properly ...

Uh exact but this is not generally the case of driving an internal toilet! The gutters are quite rarely connected to the internal pipes of the WC !!

For an old installation where you have a septic tank, that is to say THAT septic tank and not any water, there is no other rinsing than that of the flushes!

My personal corking experience confirms that this can be a problem and I am almost in the case of this subject (toilet about 0.5m high from the final evacuation to the pit)

On 10 / 20m of connection to the sewer I don't know how much the slope or the diameters is calculated and I imagine that it takes a some inertia (starting fall speed) and the regular flushing that you mentioned (since in the sewer connection we recover rainwater, although with the number of rainwater collectors it is 100% more true) ...

My personal experience shows that on a low slope (2% probably "as it should be") and low height (low initial speed) a blockage is possible on less than 5m ... that's all I want to avoid at the author of this subject!

Also, I would like to point out that the house had been used as a second home for about 5 years ... so the cork may have come from a drying of material at that time which increased gradually? To unclog the ferret after section of the pipe, I can tell you that I spent some time ... so the plug was really "hard" ...