Pollution from diesel particles

Discussion of methods of remediation and control air quality.
User avatar
Did67
Moderator
Moderator
posts: 20362
Registration: 20/01/08, 16:34
Location: Alsace
x 8685




by Did67 » 13/03/09, 08:25

Woodcutter wrote:Not quite ... It's just that the emission standard will be more restrictive ...


So, this would only concern new cars sold, as has always been the case with Euro standards something ...

The new standard is more stringent, no doubt that we can no longer achieve it without FAP ...

But again, it is more and more evident that these particles are dangerous ... So, can we be against ??? And for example plead the precautionary principle with regard to GMOs (for hypothetical health risks) and tolerate diesel, with proven risks ... ??? For me, it would be schizophrenia!
0 x
User avatar
Capt_Maloche
Moderator
Moderator
posts: 4559
Registration: 29/07/06, 11:14
Location: Ile-de-France
x 42




by Capt_Maloche » 13/03/09, 10:11

Little reminder

a photo is better than

Capt_Maloche wrote:I mounted a 30x30cm cotton cloth on the muffler fixed with a serflex to "see" what I reject with this mixture (GO + 10% SP95), new clio3 2008 1.5DCI 70Cv 1200kg
Mount 30sesondes Image

Image Image Recto, beuark !! after 25 km !! Image Image

Image
To
Image

Here is the last "sample" made this morning with "normal" GO on the same 25km work route, under the same conditions

FROM THE MOST CRADE TO THE "CLEAN"
Image


https://www.econologie.com/forums/voiture-di ... t5849.html
0 x
"Consumption is similar to a search consolation, a way to fill a growing existential void. With, the key, a lot of frustration and a little guilt, increasing the environmental awareness." (Gérard Mermet)
OUCH, OUILLE, OUCH, AAHH! ^ _ ^
User avatar
Woodcutter
Econologue expert
Econologue expert
posts: 4731
Registration: 07/11/05, 10:45
Location: Mountain ... (Trièves)
x 2




by Woodcutter » 16/03/09, 14:56

Did67 wrote:
Woodcutter wrote:Not quite ... It's just that the emission standard will be more restrictive ...


So, this would only concern new cars sold, as has always been the case with Euro standards something ...
Euro standards are not retroactive and fortunately, because they would be inapplicable!

Did67 wrote:The new standard is more stringent, no doubt that we can no longer achieve it without FAP ...
Yes, that's probably why we see language shortcuts like the one I highlighted. The same thing happened when the catalytic converter arrived with Euro1 in 1993.

Did67 wrote:But again, it is more and more evident that these particles are dangerous ... So, can we be against ??? And for example plead the precautionary principle with regard to GMOs (for hypothetical health risks) and tolerate diesel, with proven risks ... ??? For me, it would be schizophrenia!
Be careful not to mix "Particles = Diesel"
Diesel vehicles are actually responsible for part of the particulate pollution, but not all, far from it! Road transport represented in 2006 less than 10% of particulate emissions, including 3.2% for diesel passenger cars, and 1% for petrol cars ...

What to call into question certain received ideas, even if these are "global" emissions and that the responsibility for transport is surely more preponderant in the city (or the diesel ones have no interest ...)

You should also know that the share of road transport increases when the particle size decreases:
- 11% for PM10 (4.4% for VP Diesel)
- 12% for PM 2.5 (5.2% for VP Diesel
- 16% for PM1.0 (7.4% for VP Diesel)

source: http://www.citepa.org/emissions/nationa ... Rmt_PM.pdf
0 x
"I am a big brute, but I rarely mistaken ..."
User avatar
Flytox
Moderator
Moderator
posts: 14138
Registration: 13/02/07, 22:38
Location: Bayonne
x 839




by Flytox » 16/03/09, 21:11

Hello Woodcutter

Informative your link 8)

Image


Indeed for PM 10 the biggest producer seems to be ... agriculture with plowing in mind. : Shock:
There are technical solutions for this, casing + water spraying. This has been done for a long time in the mining industry etc ... We must manage to fit a tank of 100 or 200 liters of fleet on a tractor .....

Image


There for the finest and therefore the most dangerous particles the main producer would be heating with wood for individuals : Shock:

This article describes the quantity of the production of particles but without addressing the really "sanitary" side, a dust of the same size, clay may not be as harmful as dust from combustion residue full of mutagenic stuff etc. .
A+
0 x
Reason is the madness of the strongest. The reason for the less strong it is madness.
[Eugène Ionesco]
http://www.editions-harmattan.fr/index. ... te&no=4132
User avatar
Capt_Maloche
Moderator
Moderator
posts: 4559
Registration: 29/07/06, 11:14
Location: Ile-de-France
x 42




by Capt_Maloche » 16/03/09, 22:49

yes, particles have a wide variety of origins:

From the combustion of hydrocarbons, wood, coal, recovery for
- Heating
- Transportation
- Cooking food (not to be neglected in the city) Restaurants, kitchens ... and fat particles shipped at high speed
- Industrial processes

From the transformation of heated materials
- Fats
-

Erosion issues
- Mineral fibers (textile fibers, carpets ...) rejected by ventilation
- Dust lifted by the wind, working the soil
- Particles from construction, plaster, cement for construction and above all, for demolition (hello la cata ...)

and I surely forget some
Fun to make this list
(I can't open the link left by lumberjack, doesn't it work anymore?)

was there an exhaustive list of the origin of the particles?

But hey, we must discern the harmful
I frankly prefer the particle from the earth than that of diesel, whatever with all the filth of today ...
0 x
"Consumption is similar to a search consolation, a way to fill a growing existential void. With, the key, a lot of frustration and a little guilt, increasing the environmental awareness." (Gérard Mermet)
OUCH, OUILLE, OUCH, AAHH! ^ _ ^
User avatar
Woodcutter
Econologue expert
Econologue expert
posts: 4731
Registration: 07/11/05, 10:45
Location: Mountain ... (Trièves)
x 2




by Woodcutter » 16/03/09, 22:54

Capt_Maloche wrote:[...]
(I can't open the link left by lumberjack, doesn't it work anymore?)

was there an exhaustive list of the origin of the particles? [...]
Bah it works however ..
Comprehensive, I don't know ...

Here is:
1 Total suspended particles - TSP
Source: CITEPA / CORALIE / SECTEN format updated February 28, 2008
Emissions
Observation period: since 1990
Emissions in 2006: 1 kt
Maximum observed: 1 kt in 468
Minimum observed: 1 kt in 156
Evolutions
Evolution 2006/1990: -18%
Evolution 2006 / maximum: -21%
Evolution 2006 / minimum: 0%

sectors
Main sub-sectors in 2006 (> 95% of total emissions):
1 - Culture 38%
2 - Construction 15%
3 - Residential 12%
4 - Non-metallic minerals, building materials 8,6%
5 - Other sources of agriculture 4,6%
6 - Other manufacturing industry sectors 4,0%
7 - Livestock 3,1%
8 - Diesel trucks 2,6%
9 - Catalyzed diesel passenger cars 2,1%
10 - Non-catalyzed diesel passenger cars 1,1%
11 - Catalyzed diesel utility vehicles 1,0%
12 - Food industry 1,0%
13 - 1,0% catalyzed petrol passenger cars
14 - Chemistry 0,7%
0 x
"I am a big brute, but I rarely mistaken ..."
User avatar
Capt_Maloche
Moderator
Moderator
posts: 4559
Registration: 29/07/06, 11:14
Location: Ile-de-France
x 42




by Capt_Maloche » 16/03/09, 23:19

Oh yeah!

Residential and construction 12 + 15% !!
Farming 38%!!! : Shock: the earth lifted by the wind I guess

All transport combined 7,8% ... yes but with NOx

I do not see the share of heating, unless it is counted in the residential


We don't all have to be equal across regions

pushpin, this link, does not understand
is there a map of the areas?
0 x
"Consumption is similar to a search consolation, a way to fill a growing existential void. With, the key, a lot of frustration and a little guilt, increasing the environmental awareness." (Gérard Mermet)
OUCH, OUILLE, OUCH, AAHH! ^ _ ^
User avatar
Woodcutter
Econologue expert
Econologue expert
posts: 4731
Registration: 07/11/05, 10:45
Location: Mountain ... (Trièves)
x 2




by Woodcutter » 17/03/09, 11:40

Capt_Maloche wrote:[...] pushpin, this link does not include
is there a map of the areas?
Ben goes straight back to the source: www.citepa.org I guess you will find?

No map in this document.
0 x
"I am a big brute, but I rarely mistaken ..."
User avatar
Did67
Moderator
Moderator
posts: 20362
Registration: 20/01/08, 16:34
Location: Alsace
x 8685




by Did67 » 17/03/09, 15:40

Capt_Maloche wrote:
All transport combined 7,8% ... yes but with NOx

I do not see the share of heating, unless it is counted in the residential



1) Attention: in the "emissions", there are gases (CO², CO, NOx, SO², volatile organic compounds ...). Often toxic, even fatal (CO), sometimes carcinogenic ... And there are the particles, classified according to their size ... It is not the same thing. There, it is only a question of particles !

2) I also think that the heating is in the residential, hence the important "score" of this sector ... And wood heating, especially if the wood is wet, if it is a matter of regulation by " étoufement "(inserts, old stoves), we will never say it, it is, in this field, a disaster !!! Neutral in CO², certainly, but not "green" so far !!!!

3) I am, like others glued, by the "score" of agriculture. But indeed, would not put on the same point the dust (combine harvesters, soil particles therefore essentially clays) with the PM from smoteurs and more or less well regulated ... There, a ton is a ton, all particles in one bag. There is no difference depending on the harmfulness.
0 x
User avatar
zorglub
I posted 500 messages!
I posted 500 messages!
posts: 501
Registration: 24/11/09, 10:12




by zorglub » 02/06/10, 21:10

latest news: June issue of "capital"
wood heating pollutes more than road traffic is 23% of production of particles <10 microns and pollutes more than 37 million cars, and generates barely less dioxin than garbage incinerators (source: Lyon branch of the network Atmo-france)

enough to revive this subject ......... and implement gas washers
0 x
every morning you look naked in a large ice after 3 minutes you will see that your home and your worst picture ......

 


  • Similar topics
    Replies
    views
    Last message

Back to "Air Pollution and solutions against air pollution"

Who is online ?

Users browsing this forum : No registered users and 40 guests