Pesticides: standard agriculture cohabitation - dwellings

Discussion of methods of remediation and control air quality.
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bham
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by bham » 20/09/08, 12:23

Christophe wrote:And that for a housing estate it should not be so expensive (reported for each piece of land I would say a few thousand euros, finally it is on a case-by-case basis) and above all: these are NOT works at the expense of the contractor but of EdF and others who get new customers! Edf should pay the real estate developers! : Mrgreen: ...

I think you're dreaming Christophe, the connection to EDF is not supported by EDF or GDF (for gas) but by the applicant. For the connection to drinking water, for information, a network extension of a hundred meters must cost in the 100/30 €; I worked in this area but since then the prices have soared again.
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by Christophe » 20/09/08, 12:32

1) Ah yes I dream :) 400 € per meter of garden hose! By Jove! Is it gold plated? : Mrgreen:

However, logically this should be the responsibility of the supplier.

Take the example of internet cable in cities: I don't think anyone has ever paid for the road connections (probably included in installation costs).

There are also line opening costs at Edf, telephone and water. So ... pkoi France Telecom would grease more than the cable operator?

2) Did it go up in your opinion? Coupling on real estate? Robien? Ah no, it's probably China or India !!! : Evil:

By dint of wanting more and more it lashes out and that's what is happening! I am very happy but very sorry also for those who are tricked (purchase between 2004 and 2008) ...
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bham
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by bham » 21/09/08, 10:00

Not even gold plated! No, what is expensive is the hours of earthworks, trenches to be made, burial, installation of valves and meter boxes. So I break it down a bit:
-to bring the backhoe, the company brings it back on a tank truck, I will not explain the cost invoiced to the customer.
-one hour of flyer should go to 40/50 €.
- to bury the pipe, it takes m3 of sand, brought back by truck 18 tons: and it takes bcq of m3; to put the sand, we removed the earth, which will have to be deposited elsewhere, hence a truck cost to get rid of the earth. For an 18 ton truck, I believe it takes about 6 m3, which is "peanuts". So that's a lot of trucks and .... a lot of money!

Last subtlety: once the water network is in place, the end customer, therefore the future owner must fulfill the connection to this network: this includes the installation of a waterproof and antifreeze box partially buried in which is located the meter, and this at the property line + laying a pipe to the house: count € 700 minimum.
Knowing that the buried case costs at the supplier about 250 € and that we invoice you already minimum 350 € / 400 €.
When I was working in this field, a meter connection (without a housing therefore in the house) cost around 300 € (by my home).


The contribution of the box has inflated the note and the margin of the installer.

Did it go up in your opinion?

By bringing in new products (see box) but also:
- to align prices; I live in a rural area and the m3 of water was 20 years ago 2,50. Today we are at € 1 / m3 without sanitation included. Renovation work had to be done on the water tower + network, but that did not explain everything.
- the maintenance company has gradually inflated its prices and since it has the market, it does what it wants: their pricing is incomprehensible.
- individuals are more and more demanding (which can be explained given the increase in prices) and want impeccable water, this leads to costs.
- our security policy imposes a minimum chlorination of water, hence the installation of automatic vending machines in water towers, the cost of which I do not know, but with a ladle it must go within 5000 € each! The water is so gross that you just have to buy bottles of water or buy a water purification system.
Take the example of internet cable in cities: I don't think anyone has ever paid for the road connections (probably included in installation costs).
Because these are works commissioned collectively by a municipality, a region, which may have subsidies. The individual will pay only a tiny part.
On the other hand, as an individual, even make a request for connection to Edf for a house which is 50 m from the last electric pole: you will understand your pain! little info to help you: moving an EDF meter (from one room to another) already costs a minimum of € 300; before the € and before the privatization of EDF it was 200 € !! Yep, it has to pay off for the shareholders :D
Go two last ones:
-when EDF comes to connect your new house to the network, it requires the buried installation of a special sheath between the meter at the property line and your house; well it is they who must lay it and therefore have the trench made by a subcontractor; if you asked it, they don't want it.
-Edf cannot always access the meters for reading when they are inside the houses: they therefore recommend the installation of an external wall telemetric box which will allow them to read the meter; but it is up to the customer to pay it, 50 € I believe then that it is an ease of reading for EDF and that it saves them requests for reading by the customer and reminders by mail. Today everything is paid for, even the useless!
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by Woodcutter » 21/09/08, 23:01

Christophe wrote:[...] Am I mistaken?
A little ... at least in the case of my town ...

Case of a U zone (I no longer know the index), which can only be built as part of a development program.

The building land (which is still in the form of fields and meadows at present) is bought 38 € / m² from the owners, then provided with mains services and allotment, and resold 110 to 120 € per m².

Size 43 m², investment starting 000 €, cutting into 1N lots, road surface and public spaces around 634 m². Estimated product of the sale approximately 000 from which the servicing costs must be removed (AEP network, EU network, EP network, electricity sleeves, telephone, disbursement and coating of access roads). It seems to me that the promoter expects a gain of one million €, at a maturity of 40 to 5000 years after purchase.
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by bham » 26/09/08, 13:45

I have just discovered the existence, new it seems, of a gendarmerie office, the Central Office for the Fight against Damage to the Environment and Public Health (OCLAESP), attached to the sub-directorate of the judicial police of the general direction of the national gendarmerie.
http://www.defense.gouv.fr/gendarmerie/ ... ux/oclaesp

Staff: sixteen gendarmes! Bof, not yet up to the problems but hey it's already a start; link to keep in reserve.
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by Gregconstruct » 26/09/08, 19:54

Interesting!!!
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by fabio.gel » 23/10/08, 08:48

Hello

Some news about my spraying business.

The Mayor met the farmer last weekend to tell him that part of the population was unhappy with the numerous spraying that was too close to the homes.
The farmer sells his plot (at the price of building land !!!).
The mayor does not want the city to grow more for the moment.
So stand-by.
There is a meeting with the farmer as well as the representatives of the neighborhood planned, he will bring us these spray book for 7 years (we will see what he is intoxicating us with and we will know what we are going to die of).
I recovered the text of the law concerning the spraying and storage of phyto product.


http://fabio.gel.free.fr/Environnement/Arr%eat%e912092006.pdf

A lot of precaution for the use of the products but indeed nothing concerning the dwellings.
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Communication is launched ...




by fabio.gel » 15/12/08, 10:31

Hello

The neighborhood association, the mayor + the environment assistant and of course the farmer met last Saturday.

The farmer therefore sprays conventional phytosanitary products on all intensive crops, he respects the doses imposed (he must keep a log of the products used).

He gave us a little technical training regarding GPS assistance for spraying and the types of nozzles used.

Pesticides and others are sprayed at a height of 80 cm from the ground.

The products come from Bayer, Monsanto ...

We have to admit that at one time the farmers did anything in terms of the quantities of product used.

Regarding the choice of crops grown around the neighborhood no consensus possible (for him the phytosanitary products used are not harmful).

When I asked him when he would go to the Bio, he replied that he was not far from retirement and for him it is therefore not topical (sell the land in building land seems more topical).

The farmer to give us the premium value he received through the CAP, it is not tomorrow that we will leave intensive farming?

Finally :

Wait until the town hall buys the land to transform it
in common, but given the current recession this is not
not done and in addition it is not on the agenda of the mayor for his mandate.

Positive :

The neighborhood is now aware of the danger.

The Town Hall is also aware of the danger.

The farmer knows our point of view.

The farmer, the neighborhood association, the Mayor are no longer dissociated the communication between each entity is launched (no more question of hiding last an "I did not know").

This is a little story that will serve, I hope will change the link between the city and the countryside everywhere in France.

Fabio
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by nonoLeRobot » 15/12/08, 11:11

In any case it's cool to have managed to communicate well between you and it looks like everyone is having a good time.


By cons, it looks like it is still agricultural land that will disappear for subdivision. It is not tomorrow the day before that we can afford to do extensive farming and feed at the same time. . .
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by Grelinette » 15/12/08, 11:56

Hello,

I take the subject on the fly and I allow myself a little foray because I also experienced this type of passive pollution: I was a teacher in an equestrian center on the edge of fruit tree crops (apples, pears, ...) and we were very often drowned in a mist of pesticide treatment without anyone worrying! However, the employees responsible for spraying the products from their tractors were equipped like cosmonauts.

Here are 3 other ways to act:

- go around the general practitioners in the area because they are the first to know when the population develops pollution-related disorders, in particular of agricultural origin, and they have precise data. An association which makes this process of collecting information from doctors will have more weight.
If the doctors have noted an increase in disorders (eg respiratory, allergies, ...). This information can have considerable weight with a public health administration or a town hall because of the fear of media coverage among the population! This media relay generally interests the local or departmental press, which can raise the mayonnaise!

- there are public health doctors who study cases of pollution or local diseases and offer solutions. It is administrative therefore long and uncertain but it exists. (I have a doctor friend in this type of activity, I can ask him for advice).

- the MSA (agricultural social mutual, equivalent to traditional social security) sometimes launches actions and studies to control agricultural pollution and its consequences. A few years ago the MSA of the department where I worked (04) had launched an operation of this type but I do not know the seriousness and the concrete results that followed, especially since it is a somewhat "heavy" administration. . The results should depend on the people in charge of the operation and their energy to make things happen.

There you have it, there were a few remarks and suggestions about agricultural pollution.
Good day to all
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