Agriculture: problems and pollution, new technologies and solutionsA vegetable meadow?

Agriculture and soil. Pollution control, soil remediation, humus and new agricultural techniques.
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nico239
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Re: A vegetable meadow?

Unread Messageby nico239 » 10/01/19, 19:35

Did67 wrote:I would be less severe: as said, to "force", for example tomatoes + between some carrots + some first lettuce, a row of peas, one or two rows of beans ... I find it convenient.

And my house being a little further, it is also a shelter for the rain, a place where the first suns of spring are enjoyable (while outside, the wind remains cold ...) ... Etc ...

I think both are better!


For vegetables I think you can do the same with chassis on which it will be super easy to add extra protection if necessary.

In the greenhouses pro of the valley they have all a system of cables and ropes to protect in the greenhouses to make the handling not too expensive.

We ... Mrs. is obliged to spread P30, it is long and not practical.

With frames you have straw scales for the night, or old blankets or anything, it takes you 30 seconds and you're pampered.

For young shoots to grow you can start your tomatoes underneath and fold the lid when the plants have grown enough, at a time when, in general they fear nothing.

And if it sucks then you use an 40 chassis instead of a chassis of 20cm high and 40cm there for your tomatoes is on we are in June ...

Other interest protection against flying ...
You can very well envisage (I consider it in future proto) to make removable the two layers of greenhouse cover of the lid BUT to keep the P30 which lets pass day and rain but will brake (or not) the pillids for example.

To be continued....



For the rest: comfort, rain, sweetness of life ... I agree and Mrs even more Image because even in winter it is good to work in the greenhouse.
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Moindreffor
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Re: A vegetable meadow?

Unread Messageby Moindreffor » 10/01/19, 20:30

the double layer is double glazing, a small layer of warmer air that can win the 1 or 2 ° C that Didier talks about
after actually, it does not retain much, so that it restores the heat at night, it would be necessary that this heat is stored in something the day, from where the project of reserve of water in the greenhouses like accumulator, in bare soil, it is the soil that plays this role, as Didier says, so would not a bare soil in winter be better to keep frost?

There your frames are entirely canvas, we can consider a wooden frame like those of Didier, besides what do you blame Didier yours?
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Re: A vegetable meadow?

Unread Messageby Did67 » 10/01/19, 21:28

Nothing. They are empty !!!!

[I handle very badly !!!!]
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Re: A vegetable meadow?

Unread Messageby to be chafoin » 10/01/19, 23:37

So it's quite interesting to talk with mountaineers because I understand that we must not skimp on the thickness. I suspected it so well that I went to add a layer of P30 sails under my tunnels today. Well here I do not know how it came down, pt-2 tonight, not huge because the beans were already straightening the head late aprèm but hey it's rebelote tonight ...

I wonder if the plastic sheeting has an importance compared to the sails, of course it cuts rain but compared to cold and frost, is it really necessary, does it really gain in temperature (especially at night) ?

When I speak of tunnel, it is plastic arches that bend. The tarpaulin or veil is stretched at both ends with claws and on the sides with clips and sardines for me. The greatest height is about 80cm so I do not see how the chassis would be better for heat loss. On the other hand I retain the idea of ​​the succession of layers, and I notice that on your frame the internal veil must judiciously prevent the vegetation from touching the plastic sheet.

I also remember the idea of ​​tightening up on crops, I could have a little more sink my arches for some rows of beans.

Compared to the bare / covered ground, I read somewhere that mulching can protect (a little) frost ... what do you think?

Compared to flowers, here we have the same problem as the spring frosts you mentioned because as strange as it may seem: the beans are in bloom! I am talking about the first evoked seedlings that now produce their first flowers (height 50-60cm).
I imagine that beans under chassis must also be quite tall / blooming?
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Re: A vegetable meadow?

Unread Messageby to be chafoin » 11/01/19, 16:20

I add a layer on the subject after the one on the beans.
Yesterday I bought a thermo that records the max / min. This morning I measured a -2.9 for the min of the night under tunnel.
But the most surprising is the few measurements of the temperatures made towards 11h: the temperature was 4,5 degrees lower under tunnel (plastic stretched over arches + P30 sail placed on the crops) to that measured under simple P30 placed on crops to less than a meter away! The best readings were under tunnel with double P30 stretched on the arches. The measurements need to be checked because I feel that it varies a lot and quickly (I would have to buy a second thermo indicator, what do you have as weather material?).

A plausible explanation: plastic, if it heats the interior with sunshine thanks to the greenhouse effect, also keeps the night temperatures longer (the air under the plastic is not ventilated and stay in contact longer with cold or frozen soil). If the air is below the temperature of the ground (the night) then the plastic protects from the cold, in the opposite case (the day) then in absolute it would be better to remove it.
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Re: A vegetable meadow?

Unread Messageby to be chafoin » 11/01/19, 16:22

to be chafoin wrote:I add a layer on the subject after the one on the beans.
Yesterday I bought a thermo that records the max / min. This morning I measured a -2.9 for the min of the night under tunnel.
But the most surprising is the few measurements of the temperatures made towards 11h: the temperature was 4,5 degrees lower under tunnel (plastic stretched over arches + P30 sail placed on the crops) to that measured under simple P30 placed on crops to less than a meter away! The best readings were under tunnel with double P30 stretched on the arches. The measurements need to be checked because I feel that it varies a lot and quickly (I would have to buy a second thermo indicator, what do you have as weather material?).

A plausible explanation: plastic, if it heats the interior with sunshine thanks to the greenhouse effect, also keeps the night temperatures longer (the air under the plastic is not ventilated and stay in contact longer with cold or frozen soil). If the air is below the temperature of the ground (the night) then the plastic protects from the cold, in the opposite case (the day) then in absolute it would be better to remove it. So is it better to plastic or veil, or both?
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Re: A vegetable meadow?

Unread Messageby Did67 » 11/01/19, 16:36

to be chafoin wrote:
A plausible explanation: plastic, if it heats the interior with sunshine thanks to the greenhouse effect, also keeps the night temperatures longer (the air under the plastic is not ventilated and stay in contact longer with cold or frozen soil). If the air is below the temperature of the ground (the night) then the plastic protects from the cold, in the opposite case (the day) then in absolute it would be better to remove it.


In the absence of sunshine, it is plausible.

The air is warmer in height - one of the techniques of fighting frost is to install large fans - some kind of wind turbines that run by injecting current!

https://www.leprogres.fr/economie/2016/ ... rer-le-gel

So yes, the air mixture warms the lower layers!
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Re: A vegetable meadow?

Unread Messageby Did67 » 11/01/19, 16:40

to be chafoin wrote:
Compared to the bare / covered ground, I read somewhere that mulching can protect (a little) frost ... what do you think?




It can protect what is underneath and we cover! So yes, we can cover chews, lettuce ... to discover past the jelly.We can also wrap cards, artichokes ...

But otherwise, the opposite is true: mulching prevents the heat of the soil from radiating and warming the lower layers of the atmosphere! Which fatally will be colder! Ground cover increases the risk of frost. I had, in a first version of my book, a paragraph with a recording very speaking. I had to cut, because too long!
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Re: A vegetable meadow?

Unread Messageby to be chafoin » 11/01/19, 17:32

Did67 wrote:The air is warmer in height - one of the techniques of fighting frost is to install large fans - some kind of wind turbines that run by injecting current!

https://www.leprogres.fr/economie/2016/ ... rer-le-gel

So yes, the air mixture warms the lower layers!
Yes I saw that. Note on the article: they say that the machine warms 5 ha, it seems a little exaggerated -like dab-!
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Re: A vegetable meadow?

Unread Messageby to be chafoin » 13/01/19, 14:41

New temperature measurements taken to 13h30:

12 ° under winter veil P30 placed on beans + small tunnel with plastic tarpaulin
13 ° ambient air
15 ° under tunnel with 2 stretched overwinter layers (P17 + P30)

As the other would say: amazing, no?

To follow: I will try to see if there is a difference between the sails laid and the sails stretched on tunnel ...
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