Agriculture: problems and pollution, new technologies and solutionsA vegetable meadow?

Agriculture and soil. Pollution control, soil remediation, humus and new agricultural techniques.
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to be chafoin
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Re: A vegetable meadow?

Unread Messageby to be chafoin » 10/01/19, 12:19

Happy new year to all!

As a greeting card, this photo of an earthworm that I picked up on the road there are 15 or 20 days.
2018-12-27 15.27.38.jpg
What struck me was the size of this verse (surely an "anecic" of the Holy Grail): I had never seen so big or big before. Difficult to measure however because it has an extraordinary capacity for extension. But when you see it, it does not deceive, I first thought of a worm, nothing to do with compost worms ...
Like what, contrary to what one can read, they can be active in December. I transferred this animal to my garden but I'm not sure I did well because he is alone and will "dig his hole" in the middle of winter ...
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Did67
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Re: A vegetable meadow?

Unread Messageby Did67 » 10/01/19, 14:04

This year, I still have my carrots, celery and other vegetables outside. And who, until then, pushed!

I need to extract the data from my thermal probe to see the mini. - 4 ° C ??? I do not remember any colder. And on very short periods. So the temperature did not go down to 10 cm. I think the anecdotes make up for a dry season!

I had found that under my hay, and indeed, had jumped, having the reflex in front of a snake!

It had rained a lot and the soil was saturated ??? Because they have to come out of the flooded holes, unable to find enough oxygen in the water, they "drown" (suffocate). Funny: their ancestors were marine, there are some hundreds of millions of years !!!
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Re: A vegetable meadow?

Unread Messageby to be chafoin » 10/01/19, 15:19

I do not remember the weather, maybe it was: the rain that floods the soil, especially as the soil here tends to quickly gorging water.
In any case it means that there are anecdotes not far from home!

As for the cold, here the freeze came back that night and had my beans busted, even those that were protected under tunnel. In this regard, what are the techniques and effective actions to protect the cultures from frost?

Hardware question, I tried this year 3 materials: the plastic tunnel, the tunnel with wintering veil (P17) and the one with a thicker wintering veil (30g / m2). The beans flopped under the first 2, a little less under the third but they were much smaller and therefore less sensitive to frost. Regarding the protection on the gel: what is the most effective material?

I had already noticed that fairly advanced beans, especially those in bloom, are more fragile. Also, the date of sowing seems to be very important: the beans that suffer the most are those that I sowed 10 days before the date of the previous year, and which began to flower. The smaller ones, less weakened by frost, had been sown at the end of October, 3 weeks after the first. So you have to calculate your window!

In addition, I wonder if it is absolutely necessary to border the tunnels, and if the holes which are on my old plastic tarpaulin do not cancel the effect of the tunnel.

Finally, the winemakers here are familiar with the pbs related to frosts (especially in spring). It seems that what is fateful is the moment of thawing (more than that of the gel itself): it must not be done brutally (style of a sudden, morning released, full sun). Some rather amazing techniques have developed such as heaters or even fumigation.
the-operations-de-brulage-in-the-vines-are-subject-a-of-rules-tres-strictes.jpg
the-operations-of-burning-in-the-vines-are-subject-to-rules-very-strict.jpg (24.75 Kio) Consulted 756 times
Do you think that the thaw problem can also affect other crops like beans? What are your techniques?
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Re: A vegetable meadow?

Unread Messageby Did67 » 10/01/19, 15:59

This ties in with my observation from last year: tunnels are useful as a forcing tool and very inefficient as a means to fight against freezing (finally the destruction of vegetables at low temperatures - variable depending on the species!). Glass greenhouses are a little more efficient.

a) When there are no frosts, mainly in the off-season, the tunnel will heat up during the day; vegetables speed up their growth ...

The tunnel limits the radiation of heat by the earth, and can therefore maintain one or two more degrees, which can save a crop when it goes to the edge of the razor! And that especially if he made the day. And IF THE FLOOR IS NU!


b) Winter frosts

In a cold period, with little or no heat, the efficiency of a plastic tunnel is low. It can be increased by doubling the cover.

During the 21 frost of April last year, and finally two years ago, the minimum temperatures in my greenhouse (a closed tunnel at both ends) and outside were very close. Most plants have burst (-7,5 ° of memory).


I do not know if the thaw is more dangerous. Agronomically, I have never heard that. It is possible that because of a frozen ground, and a nice warm and sunny weather, plants are "desiccated": the plant loses water in its aerial parts, but these roots, frozen, do not can absorb it. It's quite special.

Spring frosts are quite special because they affect a sensitive part: the flower or the young buds. But the irrigation treatment of fruit trees in bloom is known. Frost water on the plants / flowers, but as long as you bring water, it remains at 0 ° C stack (again a law of physics, which often contradicts the beliefs: the man who has wet hands the cold of the evaporation of the water is a sensation that deceives it - the famous temperatures felt, sometimes very different from the "thermometric" temperatures). And when in the day, it thaw, I never heard problems!
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Re: A vegetable meadow?

Unread Messageby nico239 » 10/01/19, 16:31

Did67 wrote:This ties in with my observation from last year: tunnels are useful as a forcing tool and very inefficient as a means to fight against freezing (finally the destruction of vegetables at low temperatures - variable depending on the species!). Glass greenhouses are a little more efficient.


I still do not have the time to make reports worthy of the name but the chassis that I built (2 greenhouse cover thicknesses and 2 P30) seems very effective: loose soil under that of 20cm high and beans about in good condition in the tall 1m high while it is -10 out.

Needless to say, the outdoor beans have been roasted for a long time.

In the plastic tarpaulin tunnel, all seedlings are covered with P30, like a large snowfield. : Mrgreen:
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Re: A vegetable meadow?

Unread Messageby Did67 » 10/01/19, 16:57

Excellent remark: in chassis, the volume of air to "maintain" is much much lower than in a tunnel, where it escapes upwards ... Moreover, without doubt they are also more watertight, with all these double layers!

I remember ! One of the objectives is to maintain winter crops. I'm not a fan of beans, but it's an indicator. A whole set of winter lettuce, chicory have equivalent cold resistance, and that, it interests me sharply.

Remind me: still walls in straw boots or finally you went in mode "boards" ????
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Re: A vegetable meadow?

Unread Messageby nico239 » 10/01/19, 18:29

Did67 wrote:Excellent remark: in chassis, the volume of air to "maintain" is much much lower than in a tunnel, where it escapes upwards ... Moreover, without doubt they are also more watertight, with all these double layers!

I remember ! One of the objectives is to maintain winter crops. I'm not a fan of beans, but it's an indicator. A whole set of winter lettuce, chicory have equivalent cold resistance, and that, it interests me sharply.

Remind me: still walls in straw boots or finally you went in mode "boards" ????



Wooden frame

Great
http://potagers.forumactif.com/t83-chas ... assis-haut


The small
http://potagers.forumactif.com/t85-chas ... sis-bas#88
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Re: A vegetable meadow?

Unread Messageby Did67 » 10/01/19, 18:37

Génail!

No mystery: double layers and tightness, little air volume ...

If I cover a good mobility of the shoulder, I will launch something of the kind for next winter! And to me salads galore !!! [question salad, I'm more harmful than an army of slugs! But a little nuance: I cultivate them. Not the slugs!]
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Re: A vegetable meadow?

Unread Messageby nico239 » 10/01/19, 18:57

Did67 wrote:Génail!

No mystery: double layers and tightness, little air volume ...

If I cover a good mobility of the shoulder, I will launch something of the kind for next winter! And to me salads galore !!! [question salad, I'm more harmful than an army of slugs! But a little nuance: I cultivate them. Not the slugs!]



That's the question I was asking myself in another topic about the difference between chassis and greenhouses ...

Reflecting on it and with the experience of the tunnel I told myself that it was not the right / best solution for several reasons.

- Already a tunnel it costs an arm

- And in addition you can not enjoy the rain.

- Secondo, a bit like a house with high ceiling you heat the ceiling (I know in my previous home my life changed once I built a mezzanine in a huge empty space in a height of more of 5m.)

- Tertio is "fragile", and when you have to change the tarpaulin you feel it pass.

In addition it is necessary to REPROTEGER with P30 under the greenhouse ... pffff brief

Only interest of the tunnel .... for the pros (to pass with machines) and the protection against the hail ...



For us I think that a tunnel has no interest ..... aside from having fun or possibly put fragile trees but that's it.

For the rest of the chassis CUSTOMIZATION in my opinion it's the best.

And Mrs. who loves her greenhouse shares the point of view especially because it inflates her not being able to enjoy the rain.

But good at the time when we settled down we did not have this experience yet.
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Re: A vegetable meadow?

Unread Messageby Did67 » 10/01/19, 19:18

I would be less severe: as said, to "force", for example tomatoes + between some carrots + some first lettuce, a row of peas, one or two rows of beans ... I find it convenient.

And my house being a little further, it is also a shelter for the rain, a place where the first suns of spring are enjoyable (while outside, the wind remains cold ...) ... Etc ...

I think both are better!
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