Trees, forests, and forestry

Agriculture and soil. Pollution control, soil remediation, humus and new agricultural techniques.
Ahmed
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Re: Trees, forests, and forestry




by Ahmed » 02/12/21, 13:57

Well "protocolized" artificial conditions make it possible to study a variable with better precision and amplification than simple natural evolution.

If your hypothesis is correct, how do you explain the better survival rate and increased growth of fall plantings?
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VetusLignum
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Re: Trees, forests, and forestry




by VetusLignum » 02/12/21, 14:18

Ahmed wrote:If your hypothesis is correct, how do you explain the better survival rate and increased growth of fall plantings?


To begin with, it would be necessary to check whether the trees really resist the stress of drought better the following year, depending on whether they were planted at Saint Catherine's Day, or at the end of February (before the initiation of bud burst).
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Ahmed
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Re: Trees, forests, and forestry




by Ahmed » 02/12/21, 14:36

I take it for granted, especially if the spring is dry and the following summer particularly hot.
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VetusLignum
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Re: Trees, forests, and forestry




by VetusLignum » 02/12/21, 14:48

Ahmed wrote:I take it for granted, especially if the spring is dry and the following summer particularly hot.

If you do not bring scientific publications to support your claim, our discussion cannot continue.
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Ahmed
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Re: Trees, forests, and forestry




by Ahmed » 02/12/21, 14:55

The experience of practitioners (I'm not talking about mine) constitutes a good observational basis, after this is validated by research, why not? I don't really like when science arms itself with a capital letter and the scientists I frequented (I'm no longer well aware of what is being done now) were generally remarkably modest ...
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VetusLignum
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Re: Trees, forests, and forestry




by VetusLignum » 02/12/21, 15:34

Here is what the experience of practitioners says:

Once the sap has descended, the leaves have fallen, the plants begin their great winter rest. It's time to plant or transplant deciduous trees and shrubs into bare roots. They must be established before the resumption of vegetation (end of March) so that their root system has time to settle. Rest assured, these plants are hardy and withstand harsh winters, but more difficult in dry springs if they are planted late.
https://www.pepinieres-huchet.com/le-bl ... hiver.html


It is from November to the end of March, when the vegetation is dormant, that the time is right to plant fruit trees and bare root roses.
https://www.rustica.fr/arbres-et-arbust ... ,3660.html


Planting is done between mid-fall and early spring, before the sap rises.
http://www.fibois-alsace.com/files_uplo ... e-2009.pdf
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sicetaitsimple
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Re: Trees, forests, and forestry




by sicetaitsimple » 02/12/21, 18:17

Ooh there, even if it is speckled foils, it does not laugh, here!

May I allow myself to add an argument, valid in our northern European climates, in favor of planting in November / early December?
This is because there is little risk of having frozen ground, whether for uprooting or replanting. In January / February, it is riskier, and especially unfeasible for sometimes long weeks.
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Moindreffor
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Re: Trees, forests, and forestry




by Moindreffor » 02/12/21, 19:14

after that it's a question of pure logic
if you plant in november, it makes you december january february, march, i.e. at least 4 months for the tree to develop its roots, if you plant in march well at best it will be a few weeks and therefore should not be given the more time possible?

do scientists have to break open doors?

and as Sicetaitsimple says, why the St. Catherine is because at the beginning of December the meteorological winter begins and therefore the periods of frost will be more frequent and more important
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Ahmed
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Re: Trees, forests, and forestry




by Ahmed » 02/12/21, 21:12

Moindreffor, I am, with a few nuances, agree with your first and second paragraph.
On the first, it is necessary to relate the useful time to the periods when the soil is sufficiently warm to allow the functioning of the roots and not an "abstract" weather. : Wink: , but overall your reasoning is good. I think we win in planting before Ste Catherine decides ... 8)
On the second, it is not in bad taste that scientists are looking into the question, but I am no longer aware of current research.

The argument of Sicetaitsimple concerning the uprooting does not hold, because the plants are precisely uprooted early in the fall and stored in humidified refrigerators where they wait for the barge.

As for the practitioners cited, their approach is more commercial than technical. Note, however, the last sentence of the nurseries hutch:
...but more difficult the dry springs if they are planted late.
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VetusLignum
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Re: Trees, forests, and forestry




by VetusLignum » 03/12/21, 10:38

Ahmed wrote:As for the practitioners cited, their approach is more commercial than technical. Note, however, the last sentence of the nurseries hutch:
...but more difficult the dry springs if they are planted late.


The preceding sentence says: "they must be established before the resumption of vegetation (end of March) so that their root system has time to settle "; This means that, if they are planted before the resumption of vegetation, the root system has time to settle (it settles when the vegetation resumes).

Again, you (like many people) believe that the roots grow during the dormant period, but you are unable to provide proof. If you provide any evidence, I am prepared to take it into account; but otherwise, I stop there.

Ahmed wrote:The argument of Sicetaitsimple concerning the uprooting does not hold, because the plants are precisely uprooted early in the fall and stored in humidified refrigerators where they wait for the barge.

In practice, they are often gauge outside in sand.
For the rest, companies make a planning of planting over the whole winter, and if, at some point, they cannot plant (because it is freezing, or because it rains too much), they postpone or postpone . So, very often, they make their last plantings in April, when the vegetation is starting to resume. It's sub-optimal, but if the terrain is wet enough (including in summer), it's fine. In waterlogged areas, this is even the only solution, because in the middle of winter, they are impassable.
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