Slugs - girlfriends? enemies? the conference of Hervé Coves

Agriculture and soil. Pollution control, soil remediation, humus and new agricultural techniques.
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Did67
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Re: Slugs - girlfriends? enemies? the conference of Hervé Coves




by Did67 » 30/06/17, 19:50

nico239 wrote:

And on the side of predators is there no way to favor, pamper, "cultivate" the carabid population?

I think they like hedges ... but it's true that they were destroyed a lot at one time :(


The carabes just like the covered areas: meadows, etc ...

The sheet cited below says: "Tillage, and more particularly plowing and
le deep work increase the risk of nuisance on beetle populations. The sowing under cover,
theresidual grass as well as organic matter input are favorable to them "


In short, make a "Lazy Vegetable Garden"! Laziness pays off !!! I know, it's not moral !!!

This is one of the reasons for the maintenance of grassy paths between my flowerbeds, and hedges all over the northern border, all without borders around the flowerbeds (so as not to put any obstacle).

A card on the beets: http://www.agriculture-durable.org/wp-c ... odivgc.pdf

[I observed yesterday the first golden beetle - carabus auratus; I had already seen black carabids, no doubt: Pseudoophonus rufipes
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Re: Slugs - girlfriends? enemies? the conference of Hervé Coves




by izentrop » 01/07/17, 11:20

Hello,
I note that the evil understood has been lifted and that it is not because we have religious convictions that we do not respect the scientific method. (I extrapolate : Wink: )

I see that the subject has drifted quite a bit since yesterday.
Perseus wrote:Hello,
I work in the wine sector and I am convinced that the selection of Clones (trend very very heavy for decades now) is likely to constitute a certain danger for the profession because of the genetic standardization that this entails. Even if I understand the advantages that can be linked (uniqueness of characters, virosis allowance etc etc).
Welcome, and moreover, a pro even has to give informed opinions. :)

Yes, but it's less of a problem today, we know how to produce a clone with the characters sought very quickly with minimal risk thanks to CRISPR / CAS9. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RplWR12npqM ...

The ethical questions which make Europe lag behind progress :| [edit Did67: formatting so that the beginning of the sentence does not go unnoticed to the right of the image - without changing the text]

Listen to the recent program "La fin des OGM, épi c'est tout!" https://www.franceculture.fr/emissions/ ... -cest-tout
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Re: Slugs - girlfriends? enemies? the conference of Hervé Coves




by Did67 » 01/07/17, 12:28

I haven't taken the time (yet) to listen.

But we agree, I guess, that "clone" and "OGM" have nothing to do ???

The old varieties, which have nothing of a GMO, are clones when propagated by cuttings or by grafting or layering. Cloning means endlessly "tracing" a unique genetic combination, deemed favorable ("beautiful fruit"), the result of pure chance (in the case of old varieties, simply spotted in nature - by the way, how many 'have not been?), fruit of hybridizations and selection in research stations (the selection of most modern varieties; we "create chance" by crossing in large numbers, from parents who already have characteristics known that we hope to "mix" and by a systematic, methodical observation, with an "analysis grid", of the products obtained) or the result of genetic manipulation (GMOs; we are partly free of chance and we will beyond by using genes foreign to the species).
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Re: Slugs - girlfriends? enemies? the conference of Hervé Coves




by izentrop » 01/07/17, 12:41

Did67 wrote:I guess "clone" and "OGM" have nothing to do ???
Yes, you're right, I was thinking of the original plant before cloning, which is much faster to obtain with PGMs and less rough and even faster with the CRISPR / CAS9 method : Wink:

save 120000 years of mutations
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Re: Slugs - girlfriends? enemies? the conference of Hervé Coves




by Did67 » 01/07/17, 13:01

NB: the quote, thus taken again, is not good: the "I suppose" relates to "we agree ...". I'm not assuming GMO and clone are not the same; it is obvious to me and I affirm it!
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Re: Slugs - girlfriends? enemies? the conference of Hervé Coves




by Adrien (ex-nico239) » 01/07/17, 13:10

The subject (clone - GMO ... a subject for everyone, right?) Is so vast and fascinating ... I think it deserves a subject all by itself .... : Cheesy:

To return to our beetles, he is not the only one to appreciate the savannah ...

Having started as a child with a passion for entomology, I can only encourage all gardeners to have at least a piece of savanna near their garden ... or even better in the middle of the vegetable garden ...

To illustrate the point ...

the "wet" part and which has a probably better and thicker soil, no worries for the critters they enjoy

Image

the "arid" part where the layer above the pudding seems very thin ... and which grates quickly ... much less frequented by our friends the insects

Image

Just to emphasize the layer of straw that I started to deposit above all to protect this part of the ground from the aggressions of the sun .... it quickly turned into a house of critters of all kinds, like an island of refuge in the middle of this desert pampas that can be compared to bare ground.

And ditto for other islands scattered here and there for the same reasons of soil protection ... a few days after their poses they are teeming with tarantulas, baby crickets and so on ...

In short, nature abhors a vacuum.

Multiplying, even artificially, the privileged habitats of carabids and other natural predators can be the beginning of a solution
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Re: Slugs - girlfriends? enemies? the conference of Hervé Coves




by Did67 » 01/07/17, 13:58

nico239 wrote:
the "arid" part where the layer above the pudding seems very thin ... and which grates quickly ... much less frequented by our friends the insects



It is logical if you think in "food chains": at the beginning, the "autotrophs" (chlorophyllian plants), only capable of capturing solar energy; then the "heterotrophs", who live at their expense while ensuring the fundamental role of recycling carbon and destroying carbon macro-molecules so as not to make CO² (if this happens aerobically) ... Among these heterotrophs, we - which "loots" a part of the biomass by calling it "food" and sometimes "biomass energy" - fuelwood, etc .... but also soil fungi, earthworms, bacteria, insects , slugs, etc ... and then all the carnivores which feed on "herbivores" or "detritivores" or "suckers" (ladybirds, beetles, staphylins, hedgehogs etc ...) and carnivores which feed on carnivores which feed on herbivores (frogs, toads, foxes ...), and so on ...

Berf, if at the beginning, your soil is poor, and fine and drying, the autotrophs are limited. And so all that follows and depends on it ... You bring "exogenous" biomass (produced elsewhere), would only be "poor" straw, and that "boosts" them!

It's very consistent.
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Re: Slugs - girlfriends? enemies? the conference of Hervé Coves




by Did67 » 01/07/17, 18:13

izentrop wrote:
Yes, but it's less of a problem today, we know how to produce a clone with the desired characters very quickly with minimal risk thanks to CRISPR / CAS9 ...



So if we agree on the difference between GMO and clone, you will admit that the problem remains: the arborist or the wine grower plants a clone (even if it is a very old variety - like, for example, the gray pippin from Canada). So all of its trees are identical. They produce after a few years and reach a peak after more than 10 or 15 years ...

The fact that the initial clone is "created" possibly faster by a faster manipulation does not change the fact that for him, it is a disaster to have to pull out and replant and gain nothing for a few years ....
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Re: Slugs - girlfriends? enemies? the conference of Hervé Coves




by izentrop » 01/07/17, 22:48

I understand, but growing a single variety would be a big deal for a professional who doesn't usually put all their eggs in one basket.
decrypting the genome of the vine allows a better understanding of its molecular functioning, as well as better management of selection programs. http://www.vignevin.com/publications/br ... vigne.html
I have no doubt that with the new DNA manipulation tools, new and improved varieties will emerge fairly quickly.
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