Effective microorganisms

Agriculture and soil. Pollution control, soil remediation, humus and new agricultural techniques.
daninou68
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Effective microorganisms




by daninou68 » 19/05/18, 18:40

Someone can tell me what mean effective microorganisms = EM
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Re: Effective microorganisms




by izentrop » 20/05/18, 00:57

Hello,
A fool's trade
Effective microorganisms (EM) showed no effect on crop yields in a four-year field experiment. ▶ EM showed no effect on soil microbial parameters characterizing biomass, structure and activity. https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/a ... 9310001332
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Re: Effective microorganisms




by Janic » 20/05/18, 07:22

did 67 talk about it better than me, but without microorganisms, there is no life and therefore no biological activity. It is these microorganisms that are implicated in human pathologies, and therefore animal as plant. Here are some explanations about their role:
http://www.purindortie-bretagne.com/inf ... ficaces-em
Now promoting this activity in agricultural biology may very well not be sensitive in terms of yield, but in quality, in resistance to diseases for example. This is the supposed role of vaccinations which, by introducing one of these microorganisms (virus, bacteria) into the body, will modify the "terrain", or immune system, to prepare for a future fight against aggression by other so-called wild microorganisms, that is to say without human manipulation. It works or it does not work depending on a multitude of parameters that are difficult to control, if at all, hence a great variability in the results obtained.
Should we draw the conclusion that it is a fool's trade?
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Re: Effective microorganisms




by izentrop » 20/05/18, 08:34

Your definition of vaccination is wrong and is not the subject.
Janic wrote:Should we draw the conclusion that it is a fool's trade?
Because the few scientific studies show that it only works with the name.

    One of the problems is to introduce a foreign organism into a stable ecosystem.
  • Either it does not survive, supplanted by local wildlife, which is the case of EM's, although an accident could happen, as it is not a controlled trade and they are different from a supplier to the other
    Soil respiration increased one week after soil amendment with EM-bokashi and EM-bokashi sterilized compared to control, but not seven weeks later. DGGE showed that two batches of EM products had different microbial communities and that soil amendment with EM-bokashi or sterilized EM-bokashi did not change the bacterial community and diversity in two soils. The microorganisms added in EM were probably overcomposed and did not affect the existing bacterial community. We conclude that EM has not consistently suppressed soil-borne diseases or modified microbial activity and bacterial composition and diversity. https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/a ... 9417301485
    Here, as for other studies, EM-bokashi is discussed, hence organic matter, whose effects on the soil are known and can not be attributed to EM's alone.
  • Either it is a pathogen that becomes all the more effective that the local ecosystem has never been confronted with and therefore has no defense strategy.
    As for the graphiose of the elm or more recently Chalarose from the ash tree (Arg! These Asian ...)
EM's are used to sow bokashi which is not composting as advertised, but anaerobic fermentation or lactofermentation that acidifies the medium and retains it, like sauerkraut.
Composting begins only once incorporated into the soil or into a real aerobic compost.

To promote this fermentation, it is more efficient to use a "living" lactic ferment that we have on hand. http://laclamartoise.blogspot.fr/2015/0 ... lacto.html.

A method of household waste management that will be generalized
No smell, midges, or loss of nutrients before composting any organic waste.

It is also not an anaerobic digestion since the fermentation process stops when the medium becomes sufficiently acidic.
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Re: Effective microorganisms




by Janic » 20/05/18, 09:09

Your definition of vaccination is wrong and is not the subject.
So you're a specialist? So educate us!

Definition
A vaccine is a preparation made from microbes, which is introduced into the body. This action is intended to lead to the formation of antibodies (protein involved in the active defense of the body) called humoral immunity. The process also results in the organist making killer cells with the ability to act against the microbes that one wishes to fight with this vaccine, this is cellular immunity.

https://www.vulgaris-medical.com/encycl ... ale/vaccin

Vaccination. Immunization involves immunizing an individual against an infectious disease, usually by administering a vaccine. Vaccines, which stimulate the immune system, protect the person from infection or disease.
http://www.who.int/topics/immunization/fr/
So, according to you, the WHO gives a wrong definition? We can not trust anyone anymore! : Cry:
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Re: Effective microorganisms




by izentrop » 20/05/18, 10:45

[parenthesis]
These are your analogies that are false.
The immune system, understood to be an evolved being, is not like the ecosystem of a soil or a compost.
The EM's are a set of μorgs supposedly selected, but whose composition is secret so empirical,
while for an effective vaccine, the goal is to make the immune system react so that it recognizes and eliminates itself a pathogenic aggressor.
The composition may be a virus or bacterium whose pathogenic effect has been deactivated or very attenuated, but more and more it is only a protein and nothing of living that is injected, so as to bring the minimum of risk and the maximum of benefit to the patient. What do not want to understand antivacs that prefer risk to profit.
[/parenthesis]

You have other topics to pour out your conspiracy theses, stick to you please : Lol:
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Re: Effective microorganisms




by Janic » 20/05/18, 13:32

These are your analogies that are false.
The immune system, understood to be an evolved being, is not like the ecosystem of a soil or a compost.
So you would deny evolution? Welcome then! : Cheesy: You should revise a little biology where the notion of being evolved is hardly mentioned any more than by some lagging fanatics. A bacterium is as complex as any other form of life and it is these bacteria that represent the largest population in number and weight on this earth.
The EM's are a set of μorgs supposedly selected, but whose composition is secret so empirical,
You are "right" indeed,concerning everything that is kept secret. However, you then question all patented scientific work "and therefore secret, secret and empiricism are not synonyms since all patents on living things are supposed to be high level and yet incommunicable, even to the highest authorities of the States. Inquire before any rough statement.
while for an effective vaccine, the goal is to make the immune system react so that it recognizes and eliminates itself a pathogenic aggressor.
you have learned your lesson well! Bravo![*]
But this shows that you did not even bother to study the subject. The immune system responds to any foreign body introduced into an organism, which produces a productive reaction of anti body which is not the equivalent of protection. If you get bitten by a mosquito, a thorn, a nettle, for example, whatever it is, the body will react exactly like a vaccine and yet it has never produced any immunity vis-à-vis screw future bites and antibody reactions, the same thing for tetanus. Moreover, viruses, microbes, bacteria are not the only products that cause this reaction, but also adjuvants, preservatives, and other toxic [*] [*] products that cause antibodies to immune function and currently, it is especially these products that cause all these serious side effects that the minister denies despite a world scientific literature that says the opposite by court judgments.
The composition may be a virus or bacterium whose pathogenic effect has been deactivated or very attenuated, but more and more it is only a protein and nothing of living that is injected, so as to bring the minimum of risk and the maximum of benefit to the patient.
Always in ignorance! the reputation on the effectiveness of vaccines, since Pasteur, was not made on ultra-selected proteins (which could be the effectiveness could be recognized as more reliable than to take pus on animals to inject them to humans )
What do not want to understand antivacs that prefer risk to profit.
Always this contempt for everything that does not come from your pseudo scientific sources. On the one hand you confuse antitheft and precaution vis-à-vis dangerous products! And why ? The entire medical profession is not unanimous and therefore very high-level scientists (but not dependent on vaccine manufacturers) warn about the invasive vaccinology that mainly protects these industries and guarantees them total impunity as in America.
Then the risk benefit ratio is not proven since no test of a new vaccine is compared to a real placebo, no study of carcinogenesis, no communication of added products (the secret), no studies pharmacovigilance, etc ... and that's what you call profit?
You have other topics to pour out your conspiracy theses, stick to you please
Like the subject you initiated on a menasseong statement.
It is not enough to state that something is conspiracy to be so, or vaccinology is also one for its secret. When the subject, I did not respond to your wording, but that of daninou and you are not, I know, moderator on this site, then the niche medor! : Evil:

[*] the animals on which were produced the antibodies of a virus, of a pathogenic bacterium, had antibodies hundreds of times higher than the rate necessary to ensure this famous protection and thus theoretically these animals had to be hyper protected and yet they were slaughtered and cremated to prevent further spread.

[*] [*] Http://www.infovaccin.fr/composants.html
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Re: Effective microorganisms




by izentrop » 24/02/19, 09:07

When looking for "effective microorganisms" on gougueul comes first all the "perlin pimpin" products sold under this term. And for those who want to know more, the Wikipedia page.
The problem is that the business is flourishing enough for lobbis influence opinion by citing favorable studies to come and put the doubt on this page and remove what proves its effectiveness.

I had already read that it was better to go to see the page in English and in this case, it is confirmed: The study https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/a ... 9310001332 is quoted in the English version, but more in the French.
Extract from the conclusions:
Effective Microorganisms ® (EM) is a microbial inoculant designed to stimulate plant growth and soil fertility in agriculture. In this study, we investigated the effects of SE on crop yields and soil microbial parameters in a four-year, biologically managed field experiment (2003-2006) in Zurich, Switzerland. ...

▶ Effective micro-organisms (ME) showed no effect on crop yields in a field experiment of 4 years.
▶ The SE showed no effect on soil microbial parameters characterizing biomass, structure and activity.
▶ Observed effects of EM preparations may be related to nutrient loading by EM carrier substrates.
▶ The ecological impact of the SE on soil quality was low, while the effects of sampling time exceeded the effects on the MOE.
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Re: About the bokashi




by izentrop » 30/05/19, 09:52

Hello,
I'm coming back because I think it discredits bokashi composting, whereas it's the composting process that keeps the most nutrients for soil life and for plants.
It is a controlled anaerobic fermentation, so that the material does not become rotten, the juices are extracted to maintain an ideal humidity level. A lactic ferment is added to promote the good bacteria, preferably lactobacilli and depending on the type of material, a sweet material is added to promote the process. very quickly, the medium becomes acidified, destroying some of the pathogens.
True composting is mixed with the soil, but distributed to benefit soil life, avoid significant losses of greenhouse gases and also because of the initial acidity. Its progressive decomposition aided by the fauna of the soil benefits much more than a traditional compost, it seems obvious.
There is a better explanation on the English wiki https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bokashi_(horticulture)

They understand it in Latin America. They practice Bokashi composting, making their own ferments, allowing poor farmers to use as little fertilizer as possible, while improving the fertility and health of their soil.

One of the blog articles https://newspaperbokashi.wordpress.com which engages only its author, but which bodes well of the rest (more or less translated automatically) ...
Bokashi, as he has come to mean (...), is not a composting process. At all. It does not compost, but converts materials that can not be composted, because they will rancid or attract the critters into something that you can bury and ignore, and they also produce a nutritious plant food.

But the magic "effective micro-organisms" that you would like the sales talk to bring you are, in my opinion, rather misleading.
The best results I got were taking a new load (a small amount of a kitchen composter pot) of mixed kitchen waste, mixing a tablespoon of glucose from a food store Natural and Lactobacillus bacteria powder, the type you get in a health food store (and that a homemade salami maker may have hidden in the fridge!). Mix, put in a well-sealed plastic container (a Bokashi composter) with a tap at the bottom and leave for three weeks.
When it works (which has been the case twice before), you get a bacterial de-proteinase removal. Or, in other words, Lactobacillus bacteria became nuts, ate glucose, and then went for more treats. The pH has dropped to such an extent that much of the protein has been lysed in food waste and remains in the liquid (draw it as a plant food, you have to dilute it a lot), and the solid matter just feels a little unpleasantly sweet. Bury the garbage in a corner of the lot and ignore them. It will rot, and the worms will eat it.
When it does not work, it's horrible and you need a strong stomach to deal with it.
The use of the "sound" of bokashi was no more or less effective than a spoonful of bacteria and glucose powder.
I therefore conclude that the process (at least with the waste we produce!) Is very similar to silage.


Empirical but if it works, it's always better than burning.

An example
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Re: Effective microorganisms




by izentrop » 12/06/19, 10:31

Hello,
I am coming back to this subject because the lactic acid fermentation of waste seems to me to be a way of recycling organic waste of the future. I still have to experiment. Some have done it with great results https://www.aujardin.org/viewtopic.php? ... 1&start=30

What plagues the method is the fact of having to redeem these mysterious MEs, but there is no mystery ...

The method is simple:
Split the waste.
Mix them with carbonaceous material, such as cereals, dried leaves, chips, so as not to make cork rot, so that air and water can circulate and ensure a favorable C / N.
It is often recommended molasses, which can not be found easily, but perhaps a little sugar to help start fermentation?
Avoid rotten and moldy parts that could evolve into putrefaction.
Pack to remove any air pockets.
Make sure the ideal moisture of the pressed sponge, otherwise add water.
Adding a yoghurt whey lactic ferment with water to impregnate the whole (well that's what I would do and that's what was done here https://newspaperbokashi.wordpress.com/ ... r-culture/)
Finally cover with a sheet of newspaper or other, the last waste so that they are not in contact with the air contained in the container. https://newspaperbokashi.wordpress.com/ ... i-secrets/

The principle is to promote lactic fermentation, which conserves energy, and not alcoholic fermentation (yeasts) which produces CO2, nor the production of methane (strict anaerobic).
In addition, seeds and pathogens must be destroyed, as well as by the thermal phase of a heap compost? ... ideal for planting shots :?:

Study which shows the advantage of lactic acid fermentation of waste https://www.semanticscholar.org/paper/N ... 8020b85115

Study which shows that leachate is better than that of vermicompost https://www.semanticscholar.org/paper/E ... fd50a46904

When the container is full, I think it should not have any effect on burying the contents deep enough for the well-started fermentation to continue in the soil? and blows, only one bucket would suffice. : Wink:

Well ! I hope it will interest others here, because it's only me who's talking : Mrgreen:
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