Are Bt GMOs ecological?

Agriculture and soil. Pollution control, soil remediation, humus and new agricultural techniques.
User avatar
realistic ecology
Éconologue good!
Éconologue good!
posts: 208
Registration: 21/06/19, 17:48
x 61

Re: Are Bt GMOs ecological?




by realistic ecology » 26/11/19, 19:59

Ahmed wrote:Ideology liberal, you ask:
What should have been done? What would you have done if you had power at that time?

The human species has trouble regulating itself according to the environment (as many other animals do) since in it cultural factors are predominant and Malthus preached in the desert his nauseating theories. Once the link between science and power was established, determinisms were expressed, despite strong opposition from the public (but power was no longer on their side).

The advantages that you cite tend to evolve towards their opposite due to threshold effects and contradictions, mainly economic, which are growing, especially in the industrial countries, which motivates the interest carried towards the impoverished countries (and not survival of these famous 3 billion people whose companies don't care). By linking them even more closely to our fate, we very surely condemn them. Indeed, all civilization ends up disappearing, but the experience of the past teaches us that other societies survive and that this is hardly problematic ... Except that the almost universal expansion of ours announces an upheaval of a any other scale and helping the development of autonomous agricultural practices (which already exist) would constitute infinitely more precious aid than the pavement of the bear of GMOs.
Contrary to what you innocently claim, GMOs are not a trivial commodity, but concern an area on which life depends.
You also say that technique is only part of the problem and the solution, but I don't see any other aspect touched on in your comments ...

The question you are reporting was "What would you have done? What would you have done if you had had power back then?"
I find nothing concrete in your answer.

=> GMOs are not a trivial commodity, but concern an area on which life depends.
Bad ...
- The manipulations to create new natural varieties of plant (na-tu-relles!) Are also an area on which life depends. Do you have the same rejection of these natural varieties that you have of GMOs?
Because the new so-called natural varieties are no longer obtained by simple natural crosses between consenting adults of cousin varieties; most of the useful genes that can be easily imported in this way have already been exploited. We must now look for genes of interest outside the immediate family, by marrying the variety to be improved with wild, genetically distant, non-interbreeding varieties. These are arranged marriages, between partners without mutual attraction, and when the time comes, the spouses refuse the conjugal duty. The wedding night is not spent happily in the moonlit fields, but in the laboratory in test tubes, under the watchful eye of the selectors, the matchmakers-chemists in white coats. To obtain these crosses between non-consenting adults, matchmakers-chemists do not use erotic devices, they violate nature with a DNA hammer: attacks by toxic chemicals, exposure to X-rays, surrogacy.
These new varieties are still said to be natural, for the only reason that they were obtained by crossing, no matter the unnatural acrobatics that were necessary, which are far beyond what any Kama-sutra could have imagined.
Renan wheat was obtained by these acrobatics so unnatural that "Renan can be considered a GMO" (André Gallais, Professor Emeritus of AgroParisTech, member of the Academy of Agriculture).
However, Renan wheat is, with its descendants, the champion of organic wheat!
Organic wheat would be GMO!
New so-called natural and GMO varieties: what are the differences?

- Medicines, antibiotics, painkillers, against diabetes, overvoltage, etc., are also the domain on which life depends. So, do we ban them?

- Surgery, cancer, cardiac, etc. is also the domain on which life depends. Is it forbidden?

- I finish with the drugs produced by bacteria or GMO animals. Do you reject them?

=>You also say that technique is only part of the problem and the solution, but I don't see any other aspect touched on in your comments..
Let's first establish the facts: do Bt GMOs or not reduce the use of pesticides, do they have better yields? It is disputed here, but without reference.
Then we will see what else can be done, given what men are, since it seems to me that this is what is in your question. I quickly approached the question by asking how we could change men's behavior. I do not remember if you answered.
0 x
User avatar
GuyGadebois
Econologue expert
Econologue expert
posts: 6532
Registration: 24/07/19, 17:58
Location: 04
x 982

Re: Are Bt GMOs ecological?




by GuyGadebois » 26/11/19, 20:09

realistic ecology wrote:Renan wheat was obtained by these acrobatics so unnatural that "Renan can be considered a GMO" (André Gallais, Professor Emeritus of AgroParisTech, member of the Academy of Agriculture).
However, Renan wheat is, with its descendants, the champion of organic wheat!
Organic wheat would be GMO!

False. The first part of obtaining this wheat is natural (crossing), the second which makes it non-sterile by infusing the seeds in colchicine, which allows chromosome multiplication is also natural (we find this phenomenon in nature). The combination of the two phases is improbable but not impossible, INRA has only used these properties to make a new kind of wheat. Nothing to do with DNA transplant.
0 x
“It is better to mobilize your intelligence on bullshit than to mobilize your bullshit on intelligent things. (J.Rouxel)
"By definition the cause is the product of the effect". (Tryphion)
"360 / 000 / 0,5 is 100 million and not 72 million" (AVC)
User avatar
realistic ecology
Éconologue good!
Éconologue good!
posts: 208
Registration: 21/06/19, 17:48
x 61

Re: Are Bt GMOs ecological?




by realistic ecology » 26/11/19, 20:29

GuyGadebois wrote:
realistic ecology wrote:Renan wheat was obtained by these acrobatics so unnatural that "Renan can be considered a GMO" (André Gallais, Professor Emeritus of AgroParisTech, member of the Academy of Agriculture).
However, Renan wheat is, with its descendants, the champion of organic wheat!
Organic wheat would be GMO!

False. The first part of obtaining this wheat is natural (crossing), the second which makes it non-sterile by infusing the seeds in colchicine, which allows chromosome multiplication is also natural (we find this phenomenon in nature). The combination of the two phases is improbable but not impossible, INRA has only used these properties to make a new kind of wheat. Nothing to do with DNA transplant.

Since you are able to decide between what is true or false, it would be good to give us a small table, summary, but complete this time, of the steps to obtain Renan wheat. You have tried, but some are missing in your message.
Is colchicine good for your health?
What about the "DNA transplant"?
0 x
Janic
Econologue expert
Econologue expert
posts: 19224
Registration: 29/10/10, 13:27
Location: bourgogne
x 3491

Re: Are Bt GMOs ecological?




by Janic » 26/11/19, 20:36

https://www.rfcrpv.fr/quil-faut-savoir-colchicine/
Is colchicine good for your health?
like most drugs
What about the "DNA transplant"?
DIY without hindsight over several generations.
0 x
"We make science with facts, like making a house with stones: but an accumulation of facts is no more a science than a pile of stones is a house" Henri Poincaré
User avatar
GuyGadebois
Econologue expert
Econologue expert
posts: 6532
Registration: 24/07/19, 17:58
Location: 04
x 982

Re: Are Bt GMOs ecological?




by GuyGadebois » 26/11/19, 20:55

realistic ecology wrote:Is colchicine good for your health?

Colchicine is a substance (the only one, I believe ... to check) that treats gout. It is a mutagenic substance used in nurseries for a very long time and a violent poison.
0 x
“It is better to mobilize your intelligence on bullshit than to mobilize your bullshit on intelligent things. (J.Rouxel)
"By definition the cause is the product of the effect". (Tryphion)
"360 / 000 / 0,5 is 100 million and not 72 million" (AVC)
izentrop
Econologue expert
Econologue expert
posts: 13713
Registration: 17/03/14, 23:42
Location: picardie
x 1524
Contact :

Re: Are Bt GMOs ecological?




by izentrop » 27/11/19, 02:00

GuyGadebois wrote: Nothing to do with DNA transplant.
Pfff! It is playing with words.
GuyGadebois wrote:a multiplication of chromosomes is also natural (we find this phenomenon in nature).
just like the transverse transfer of genes, otherwise a lot of advanced functionalities could not exist like sight or photosynthesis. https://www.pourlascience.fr/sd/biologi ... -18425.php
0 x
Janic
Econologue expert
Econologue expert
posts: 19224
Registration: 29/10/10, 13:27
Location: bourgogne
x 3491

Re: Are Bt GMOs ecological?




by Janic » 27/11/19, 08:34

just like the transverse transfer of genes, otherwise a lot of advanced functionalities could not exist like sight or photosynthesis. https://www.pourlascience.fr/sd/biologi ... -18425.php
ah ah! ah! : Cheesy: : Cheesy: : Cheesy:
this article serves above all to dismantle the certainties of some in favor of other certainties which will be demolished by still others with increasing complexity where, as Klein says, "the interest of knowledge is to measure our ignorance"and each new knowledge makes men proud of holding the key to all mystery.
So the short-term interest in GMOs is essentially economic and not ecological, and they don't even hide it any more.
0 x
"We make science with facts, like making a house with stones: but an accumulation of facts is no more a science than a pile of stones is a house" Henri Poincaré

 


  • Similar topics
    Replies
    views
    Last message

Back to "Agriculture: problems and pollution, new techniques and solutions"

Who is online ?

Users browsing this forum : No registered users and 349 guests