In bulk:
1) Yes. I am experimenting within the framework of a "family-oriented garden". Another thing is productive market gardening (to make a living from it) or even open field market gardening.
Besides what you mention, the mounds obviously also have an interest in wet and heavy ground.
In short, it is against the idea that we should systematically butter the Pdt that I testify. But to test this idea is not to say: one should not never !
2) Nevertheless, well-trained animals "see" rows of plants even when they are flat (without mounds). I have often spent the "cultivator" or the "cultivator" with cows or with oxen. They go straight into the inter-row.
3) I had Colorado beetles on fairly "academic" organic, but in traditional culture - beaker / biner / butter -, in the same place, a few years ago.
Last year, I had 3 zones in my board; "organic" plants; meadow clearing; zone A = nothing + plants set + BRF; zone B: nothing + plants buried then covered with BRF; zone C = traditional tarpaulin; late planting; ridging during hoeing, with a hoe ...
The 3 zones did not have Colorado potato beetles.
Hence the prudence of my conclusions.
4) I also have testimonials, with photos, of large-scale "biodynamic" productions with the fight against Colorado beetles by covering, after hilling, with "high quality hay".
However here, I set myself the goal of testifying on the abse of observations + photos.
At this stage, in my experience last year, there is nothing to confirm any effect of the BRF. And even less its opposite!
5) I am not a priori convinced by the principle "in a healthy and balanced world, there will be no Colorado beetles!".
Because :
- it is about a parasite introduced, like the Pdt besides (whose originje is located, it seems to me, in the high Andean plateaus ...
- all places, even "organic" are not necessarily conducive to a balance; my garden, in what has been "all time" a natural meadow, will not necessarily be "suitable" for a "balanced" culture of everything I am going to plant! For example the Pdt!
6) I also confirm for the "green" Pdts, despite about 20 cm of BRF - which makes them wheelbarrows on 20 m² (which is a small board of Pdt !!!). I don't remember the number anymore, I didn't write it down. But we dumped and dumped!
Hay is an interesting alternative.
Le Potager du Sloth: Gardening without fatigue more than Bio
I limited myself to providing some information, not exhaustive, on the culture on hillock, not to defend this technique which I do not practice besides ...
I do not know if the brf generates a "healthy" and "balanced" soil which discourages the Colorado beetles, I simply note the dissuasive effect, without explaining it.
It is true that the culture of potatoes under mulch requires a fairly considerable volume of material!
I recently equipped myself with an honorable capacity wood chipper which will allow me to face the task more easily, especially since, following in this the idea of Dedeleco, I "benefit" from the sizes of the neighbors!
I also grind my stems of miscanthus giganteus, it is a good source of herbaceous mulch.
I do not know if the brf generates a "healthy" and "balanced" soil which discourages the Colorado beetles, I simply note the dissuasive effect, without explaining it.
It is true that the culture of potatoes under mulch requires a fairly considerable volume of material!
I recently equipped myself with an honorable capacity wood chipper which will allow me to face the task more easily, especially since, following in this the idea of Dedeleco, I "benefit" from the sizes of the neighbors!
I also grind my stems of miscanthus giganteus, it is a good source of herbaceous mulch.
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"Please don't believe what I'm telling you."
Ahmed wrote:
I do not know if the brf generates a "healthy" and "balanced" soil which discourages the Colorado beetles, I simply note the dissuasive effect, without explaining it.
.
Concretely, have you made this observation multiple times? You never had a counterexample: a production under BRF attacked?
[for my part: only one year - last year; no pdt this year because I can "glean" on an "organic" production elsewhere ... A few years ago, before my heart attack, I was making classic but "organic" pdt; and I usually had Colorado beetles - sometimes I was able to control by "picking"; once or twice, I also treated with pyrethroids, it was no longer "organic" then!]
In general, how do you manage your BRF? Do you put it everywhere every year? Or a layer in place before such culture ???
Your experience with rodents ???
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- Econologue expert
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- Registration: 28/09/09, 17:35
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- x 554
Did67 wrote: [.....
For information, I had for example "tolerated" 5 feet of unharvested Brussels sprouts, mounted in bloom. I had left to tear them off "stupidly without thinking", in short mechanically, when I saw that they were buzzing above my head! It was among the 1st flowers this spring in my neighborhood. I left them to reinvigorate bees and bumblebees.
The neighbor thought it was a mess. Oh, he didn't say it like that: "What are the yellow flowers that you have in your garden ???"
I did the same!
I did that '' to see '' and when I had everything in yellow flower there were bees!
For the PdT I have Colorado potato beetles every year, in organic, but they are in limited number. I catch them and crush them with a pebble.
The slugs eat them after that.
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Ahmed wrote:I confined myself to providing some information.
Just to clarify that this initiation, I perceived it a little as if you apologized ...
Between being preremptory and in judgment, and "exchanging", there is a difference that I make quite easily ...
Your answer was a complement, a deepening of my opinion ...
Answer that I myself wanted to complete again, in a kind of "co-construction ..." of this thread. Dialogue ...
I was hoping I hadn't "cropped" you; therefore, you did not need that careful entry. Let's be simple (but not witty!).
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Do not worry, if I took these precautions it is only for the sake of precision, I did not feel aggressive on your part!
The fact that in short the potatoes are spared by the Colorado potato beetles results from the numerous exchanges between practitioners and not from my only experience (my neighbor has not had any in classical culture either, these last years).
The brf is not always easy to manage.
First of all at the level of supply, if we depend on an external supplier, either we obtain large quantities which it is difficult to use immediately (otherwise, fermentation problem), or we do not don't get it when you need it ...
Since I have my little crusher, it's simpler, especially since its logistics are reduced to its simplest expression.
Then, I distribute the shredded fruit to crops that like: potatoes, legumes (sorry, fabaceae!), Strawberries, blackcurrants and fruit trees; later, during rotations, I use the boards that have been ground for other productions: tomatoes, carrots, lettuces, radishes, leeks ...
Normally, I spread shreds, leaves and grass (leaves and grass more systematically, because no contraindications) in the fall, but this year it did not go as planned and heart problems have complicated matters ... The difference from you is that I am supposed to "force", which does not change anything, however, to my garden designs!
I have to spend a little sweat to make up for lost time, but it's temporary!
The fact that in short the potatoes are spared by the Colorado potato beetles results from the numerous exchanges between practitioners and not from my only experience (my neighbor has not had any in classical culture either, these last years).
The brf is not always easy to manage.
First of all at the level of supply, if we depend on an external supplier, either we obtain large quantities which it is difficult to use immediately (otherwise, fermentation problem), or we do not don't get it when you need it ...
Since I have my little crusher, it's simpler, especially since its logistics are reduced to its simplest expression.
Then, I distribute the shredded fruit to crops that like: potatoes, legumes (sorry, fabaceae!), Strawberries, blackcurrants and fruit trees; later, during rotations, I use the boards that have been ground for other productions: tomatoes, carrots, lettuces, radishes, leeks ...
Normally, I spread shreds, leaves and grass (leaves and grass more systematically, because no contraindications) in the fall, but this year it did not go as planned and heart problems have complicated matters ... The difference from you is that I am supposed to "force", which does not change anything, however, to my garden designs!
I have to spend a little sweat to make up for lost time, but it's temporary!
0 x
"Please don't believe what I'm telling you."
[If I understand correctly between the lines, we share much more than the BRF, reading a weekly and the interest in another approach to agriculture and gardening: stents, no doubt? I too should "force" - but gardening is too "irregular"]
Ok for the difficulty in finding BRF. I grind myself too, from the hedges, and I have the forest just behind my house (on the other side of the garden) ... [with a little bruaynt "amateur" chipper that I recommend: a Bosch AXT 2 TC - slow rotating turbine]
And indeed, I do not plan to extend its grip, since the following year, it remains difficult to sow. Finally, get a lift !!!
We can only put plants. It is in any case my experience of this year, at the place of my test "pdt" of the last year: when I sow, nothing rises; even beans! ; what I transplant grows!
I will therefore probably reduce the grip to around 1/6 of my surface, so that the sole under BRF + the one where there was BRF in year n-1 is around 1/3. BRF in "clearing", if I do some more or to "destroy" a perennial crop at the end of its life (strawberries) or even, with a slightly smaller dose, on my Alexandrian clover, in the fall .
As mentioned above, I think this step is however important in my cycle for:
- "culture of mycelia" as mineral extractors;
- the development of the "destroyers" of mycelium then (for a natural "fungal" cleaning of the soil).
[for non-specialists: mycelium, these are the often microscopic filaments of a fungus, of which the "cap" - carpophore - is only the reproductive organ]
So I'm still thinking of maintaining a BRF area. With plantation - tomatoes, cabbage, cucurbits ...
As I wrote, it seems to me, the absence of Colorado potato beetles was also reported to me and documented by photos with Austrian biodynamic producers ("productive" market gardening) by spreading "good hay" afterwards ridging.
One hypothesis would undoubtedly be that less "green" potatoes, less rich and succulent in proteins, no doubt (because of the regulating effect on the excess nitrogen of these contributions of lignin or cellulose), are less "attractive. "? In the photos we saw Colorado beetles on the neighboring rows - also exploited biodynamically! - but not mulched with hay !!!
Ok for the difficulty in finding BRF. I grind myself too, from the hedges, and I have the forest just behind my house (on the other side of the garden) ... [with a little bruaynt "amateur" chipper that I recommend: a Bosch AXT 2 TC - slow rotating turbine]
And indeed, I do not plan to extend its grip, since the following year, it remains difficult to sow. Finally, get a lift !!!
We can only put plants. It is in any case my experience of this year, at the place of my test "pdt" of the last year: when I sow, nothing rises; even beans! ; what I transplant grows!
I will therefore probably reduce the grip to around 1/6 of my surface, so that the sole under BRF + the one where there was BRF in year n-1 is around 1/3. BRF in "clearing", if I do some more or to "destroy" a perennial crop at the end of its life (strawberries) or even, with a slightly smaller dose, on my Alexandrian clover, in the fall .
As mentioned above, I think this step is however important in my cycle for:
- "culture of mycelia" as mineral extractors;
- the development of the "destroyers" of mycelium then (for a natural "fungal" cleaning of the soil).
[for non-specialists: mycelium, these are the often microscopic filaments of a fungus, of which the "cap" - carpophore - is only the reproductive organ]
So I'm still thinking of maintaining a BRF area. With plantation - tomatoes, cabbage, cucurbits ...
As I wrote, it seems to me, the absence of Colorado potato beetles was also reported to me and documented by photos with Austrian biodynamic producers ("productive" market gardening) by spreading "good hay" afterwards ridging.
One hypothesis would undoubtedly be that less "green" potatoes, less rich and succulent in proteins, no doubt (because of the regulating effect on the excess nitrogen of these contributions of lignin or cellulose), are less "attractive. "? In the photos we saw Colorado beetles on the neighboring rows - also exploited biodynamically! - but not mulched with hay !!!
1 x
- chatelot16
- Econologue expert
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- Registration: 11/11/07, 17:33
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- x 264
I am wondering about these cultivation methods where we replace mechanical work of the earth with brf
for a small personal garden when there is enough garden waste to grind anyway
but for a crop in larger quantities it would merit to calculate a little: compare the energy consumed by a tractor or a tiller, with the energy that we could make with plants instead of making brf
we could even consider a mixed solution: use crushed wood as brf, then collect it to use it as fuel then: the decomposable part will have enriched the soil, the wood part which is useless will be used as fuel
but before delving into this mixed solution, we would need some figures on vegetable cultivation:
another remark on the physical limitation of the gardener: it is on that the classic tiller is a barbarian machine, which imposes a rather bad physical effort: the tiller, is just a little less worse: the best is the real tractor that one can drive without direct effort
a pity that there is no small inexpensive tractor: we have the choice between new mini tractor very expensive and old used tractor inexpensive but quite large
for a small personal garden when there is enough garden waste to grind anyway
but for a crop in larger quantities it would merit to calculate a little: compare the energy consumed by a tractor or a tiller, with the energy that we could make with plants instead of making brf
we could even consider a mixed solution: use crushed wood as brf, then collect it to use it as fuel then: the decomposable part will have enriched the soil, the wood part which is useless will be used as fuel
but before delving into this mixed solution, we would need some figures on vegetable cultivation:
another remark on the physical limitation of the gardener: it is on that the classic tiller is a barbarian machine, which imposes a rather bad physical effort: the tiller, is just a little less worse: the best is the real tractor that one can drive without direct effort
a pity that there is no small inexpensive tractor: we have the choice between new mini tractor very expensive and old used tractor inexpensive but quite large
0 x
For me, the BRF on large surfaces is "dead", as young people say.
The quantities of biomass would be considerable.
I mentioned the forty or so wheelbarrows - I did not weigh - for my "board" this year, around fifty square meters at most - I will measure later.
It's okay that I have the forest next door, that they had just made a cut and that there were messy branches ...
For me, it's a gardening technique, for those who have resources: hedges, groves, etc ... (or who can develop them, because these hedges are still full of other things: flowers, chestnuts, fruits - hazelnuts !, birds therefore "anti-caterpillars, windbreaks ...)
In field crops, the Wenz system convinced me: plant associations or intermediate crops, with direct sowing in this cover. It's technical, very technical! And don't work with everything either ... or you still need research!
In "productive" market gardening, I think that straw, old hay (the bales that are lying around and have taken in water), etc ... represent a potential.
I say it again: here I am talking about gardening. And again, there are all kinds of gardeners, I remind you: the one who wants to have the biggest, the one who wants to have the 1st tomato ... I only speak of "least effort" gardening. Not "record gardening". Or "gardening to impress the neighbors" ... Although, my gardening also amazes the neighbor a little, half-worried, half-mocking, half-admiring. That's 3 running backs, which in Alsace is not much!
[a "half" is the common name for a glass of beer, and is 25 cl; probably derived from the half pint]
[PS: this morning I spent two hours uploading my photos from the "pdt" essay; and it messed up at the time of uploading; I will do it again, but this annoyed me!]
The quantities of biomass would be considerable.
I mentioned the forty or so wheelbarrows - I did not weigh - for my "board" this year, around fifty square meters at most - I will measure later.
It's okay that I have the forest next door, that they had just made a cut and that there were messy branches ...
For me, it's a gardening technique, for those who have resources: hedges, groves, etc ... (or who can develop them, because these hedges are still full of other things: flowers, chestnuts, fruits - hazelnuts !, birds therefore "anti-caterpillars, windbreaks ...)
In field crops, the Wenz system convinced me: plant associations or intermediate crops, with direct sowing in this cover. It's technical, very technical! And don't work with everything either ... or you still need research!
In "productive" market gardening, I think that straw, old hay (the bales that are lying around and have taken in water), etc ... represent a potential.
I say it again: here I am talking about gardening. And again, there are all kinds of gardeners, I remind you: the one who wants to have the biggest, the one who wants to have the 1st tomato ... I only speak of "least effort" gardening. Not "record gardening". Or "gardening to impress the neighbors" ... Although, my gardening also amazes the neighbor a little, half-worried, half-mocking, half-admiring. That's 3 running backs, which in Alsace is not much!
[a "half" is the common name for a glass of beer, and is 25 cl; probably derived from the half pint]
[PS: this morning I spent two hours uploading my photos from the "pdt" essay; and it messed up at the time of uploading; I will do it again, but this annoyed me!]
0 x
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