Le Potager du Sloth: Gardening without fatigue more than Bio

[Did67]

... a good weather window can be misleading

A lot of things are delusional.

And already - for me, it is above all - conviction. As I mentioned in "What a con", you just need to be convinced for the barriers of doubt to break down - and we have seen how I "blinded" myself. If I had coldly thought, observed, analyzed, never would I have said bullshit to the point of having to say: "what a con:!"

Then, the remarkable ability of our brains to "tell stories" - I will come back in a video on Elisabeth Loftus' research.

And then, everything that revolves around hazards, "edge effects" ... Which means that normally, we make random distributions of repeated test squares, and that we do heavy statistical processing to find out if this 'is significant (generally at the 95% level).

It is extremely difficult. You can check them all. Take a die. Roll 60 times. Theoretically, you will have 10 times each face. In reality, you will have, I write anything (make a series):

13 times on 1
9 times on 2
11 times on 3
12 times on 4
7 times on 5
8 times on 6

You could, with these noisy figures, deduce from it that the 1 is much more "productive" than the 5 ... Only a calculation of the variance, taking into account the degree of freedom, will make it possible to affirm that this die is rigged or no (95% or 99%).

It's the same in your vegetable garden.

Variety A gives 12,3 kg. Variety B gives 15,2. You inevitably deduce that B is greater than A. In fact, you don't know! B could just be the "1" from the above draw and A the "5"!

The difficulty with the lunar cycle is that it is absolutely impossible to do a "test", all other things being equal: it will not be the same day; and therefore many other parameters will have changed. When it comes to plants, they will have stayed in pots longer. It will have rained or, on the contrary, the weather is fine. Nitrification will have been initiated - or delayed ... etc ...

My wife started to realize that it's not that simple: the other day, which was the right day for onions, she was working ... So it was racing ... Two days later, she was at rest, it would have been easy ... It hadn't rained!

[What do you mean, I didn't help? But if ! I helped her "pass" her test by doing nothing for her - so that she also suffered the inconvenience of the system; if ever she doesn't produce more than me, two years like that to piss off and she'll quit on her own!]

[Boris70]

Obviously I don't believe in gardening with the moon either.

Even if I do not take it into account, because I find the current calendar too restrictive, there are certainly effects of the Moon but not necessarily those that we believe (day this, day that, ...). The researchers who looked into the subject did not all find the same things: some observed an effect of the days before the full moon, others saw that only certain plants reacted and others did not.

I would add that the Moon has significant and observable physical effects: the tides. And what we forget because we do not realize it, there is also an earth tide. So there may be effects on living things?

Some people have noticed that they sleep less well on full moon nights. One study quantified this effect:

"We found that around the full moon, the delta activity of the electroencephalogram (EEG) during NREM sleep, an indicator of deep sleep, decreased by 30%, the time to fall asleep increased by 5 min, and the duration Total sleep assessed by EEG was reduced by 20 min. These changes were associated with a decrease in the subjective quality of sleep and a decrease in endogenous melatonin levels. This is the first reliable evidence that a lunar rhythm can modulate the structure of sleep in humans when measured under the highly controlled conditions of a circadian laboratory study protocol with no indication of time. "
Source: https://www.cell.com/current-biology/fulltext/S0960-9822(13)00754-9

[Doris]

My wife started to realize that it's not that simple: the other day, which was the right day for onions, she was working ... So it was racing ... Two days later, she was at rest, it would have been easy ... It hadn't rained!

[What do you mean, I didn't help? But if ! I helped her "pass" her test by doing nothing for her - so that she also suffered the inconvenience of the system; if ever she doesn't produce more than me, two years like that to piss off and she'll quit on her own!]

That's what's most annoying about the moon, and why, about ten years ago, I quit it even before I really started. When you have a busy job, for my part in addition with very variable and disjointed schedules, it's just slavery, between the days this and that, the moments, when you should especially not garden, and which fall for sure when you are resting .... In fact by gardening with the lunar calendar, I would never harvest anything, neither in traditional gardening, nor in lazy mode, for lack of having planted or sowed.

[Rajqawee]

Obviously I don't believe in gardening with the moon either.

Even if I do not take it into account, because I find the current calendar too restrictive, there are certainly effects of the Moon but not necessarily those that we believe (day this, day that, ...). The researchers who looked into the subject did not all find the same things: some observed an effect of the days before the full moon, others saw that only certain plants reacted and others did not.

I would add that the Moon has significant and observable physical effects: the tides. And what we forget because we do not realize it, there is also an earth tide. So there may be effects on living things?

Some people have noticed that they sleep less well on full moon nights. One study quantified this effect:

"We found that around the full moon, the delta activity of the electroencephalogram (EEG) during NREM sleep, an indicator of deep sleep, decreased by 30%, the time to fall asleep increased by 5 min, and the duration Total sleep assessed by EEG was reduced by 20 min. These changes were associated with a decrease in the subjective quality of sleep and a decrease in endogenous melatonin levels. This is the first reliable evidence that a lunar rhythm can modulate the structure of sleep in humans when measured under the highly controlled conditions of a circadian laboratory study protocol with no indication of time. "
Source: https://www.cell.com/current-biology/fulltext/S0960-9822(13)00754-9

Simply, without animosity:
"The researchers who looked into the subject did not all find the same things: some observed an effect of the days before the full moon, others saw that only certain plants reacted and others did not."
In other words, they therefore found nothing at all. If they didn't start with the assumption that something exists, then he wouldn't have noticed anything in the data that suggests anything.

Regarding the study, see the wikipedia page on this subject:
https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Influence ... ._Cajochen

Not reproduced, small sample, confirmation bias.
(but a study the year after shows may be something ... may be, mind you)

[Doris]

I would add that the Moon has significant and observable physical effects: the tides. And what we forget because we do not realize it, there is also an earth tide. So there may be effects on living things?

For me the question is above all to know, if its effects are significant on the scale of a vegetable patch or a field? At the ocean, the tide is observable even with relatively small coefficients. In the pond immediately behind the dunes you do not see any difference, the bodies of water involved being much smaller. The amplitude of the terrestrial tides, which you evoke, is measured by satellite. So personally what I'm questioning is that it could have a significant and interesting effect for us on the scale of a garden, or a carrot, or a potato plant. Last year I did a lot of duplicate cultures, with and against the moon. Well, when I noticed the differences, I knew the reasons: temperature difference, rainfall, brightness, etc.

[Boris70]

Simply, without animosity:
"The researchers who looked into the subject did not all find the same things: some observed an effect of the days before the full moon, others saw that only certain plants reacted and others did not."
In other words, they therefore found nothing at all. If they didn't start with the assumption that something exists, then he wouldn't have noticed anything in the data that suggests anything.

Regarding the study, see the wikipedia page on this subject:
https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Influence ... ._Cajochen

Not reproduced, small sample, confirmation bias.
(but a study the year after shows may be something ... may be, mind you)

Thanks for the contradictory study.

For the effect on cultures, these researchers disagreed with Maria Thun's conclusions (day this, day this), so they were looking to see the effect or lack of effect of the Moon outside of this framework. . In any research one starts from a hypothesis (not a postulate) which will be validated or refuted for the experiments. This is the usual scientific approach. And they were honest enough to say when they saw an effect and no effect.

[Boris70]

I would add that the Moon has significant and observable physical effects: the tides. And what we forget because we do not realize it, there is also an earth tide. So there may be effects on living things?

For me the question is above all to know, if its effects are significant on the scale of a vegetable patch or a field? At the ocean, the tide is observable even with relatively small coefficients. In the pond immediately behind the dunes you do not see any difference, the bodies of water involved being much smaller. The amplitude of the terrestrial tides, which you evoke, is measured by satellite. So personally what I'm questioning is that it could have a significant and interesting effect for us on the scale of a garden, or a carrot, or a potato plant. Last year I did a lot of duplicate cultures, with and against the moon. Well, when I noticed the differences, I knew the reasons: temperature difference, rainfall, brightness, etc.

Totally agree. I made the same observation with my tests on radishes and potatoes. This is the reason why I stick more to climate, weather and phenology data. Trumpet daffodils (Vosges daffodils) have just bloomed today, that is to say 1 month after the first primroses, that is concrete on the progress of the season, the lengthening of the days and the softening of temperatures!

[Rajqawee]

Yes! We agree

[pi-r]

At the ocean, the tide is observable even with relatively small coefficients.

and even in places where it is believed that there is no tide ... the "mare nostrum" for example !!!!
remember that it is in Marseille that the marenograph is located, which is used, among other things, to determine the zero point of our charts.
as for the effectiveness of the "moon calendar" on gardening, I allow myself to think (as someone says ) that it is as invalid as the injunction in our campaigns to prohibit women who had their period, to participate in the transformation of the family pig. sometimes the injunction was limited to the sausage .... luckily many women went beyond, by keeping their states silent!

[Moindreffor]

Simply, without animosity:
"The researchers who looked into the subject did not all find the same things: some observed an effect of the days before the full moon, others saw that only certain plants reacted and others did not."
In other words, they therefore found nothing at all. If they didn't start with the assumption that something exists, then he wouldn't have noticed anything in the data that suggests anything.

Regarding the study, see the wikipedia page on this subject:
https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Influence ... ._Cajochen

Not reproduced, small sample, confirmation bias.
(but a study the year after shows may be something ... may be, mind you)

Thanks for the contradictory study.

For the effect on cultures, these researchers disagreed with Maria Thun's conclusions (day this, day this), so they were looking to see the effect or lack of effect of the Moon outside of this framework. . In any research one starts from a hypothesis (not a postulate) which will be validated or refuted for the experiments. This is the usual scientific approach. And they were honest enough to say when they saw an effect and no effect.

https://www.rustica.fr/jardiner-avec-lu ... ,7427.html
source Rustica which each year provides a lunar calendar
Olivier de Serres (1539-1619), self-taught agronomist considered the father of French agronomy, takes stock of these traditions. There are many contradictions according to the regions which follow these customs, but advises nevertheless to continue to refer to local practices.

at the time we weren't revolutionary yet, so we don't get too wet

As for La Quintinie, gardener of Louis XIV, he declares that:
“Those who trust the Moon are bad gardeners who ignore the experience and the essential actions!”

on the other hand he swings the pavement in the puddle

These reviews do not undermine popular belief and traditions endure (sometimes tinged with skepticism) until the beginning of the twentieth century, when Rudolf Steiner, philosopher at the origin of a current of thought aimed at “restoring the link between Man and the spiritual worlds”, invents biodynamics.

so we agree he's not an agronomist

This principle promotes natural tillage with herbal treatments, all in tune with the Moon, knowing that the rising and falling moon has more power than the waxing and waning moon.

that we can understand and admit, in the process of restoring the link between Man and Nature

Her work was further developed by Maria and Mathias Thun in their first Sowing Calendar, published in 1963. What to establish a belief that endures. (Wikipedia: These calendars are based on rhythms other than those put forward by Rudolf Steiner in the Farmers' Course, in particular the sidereal rhythm of the Moon.

she was a nurse and he was an art teacher, and ultimately not too much Thun with Steiner

in the end, the lunar calendar only dates from 1963, and to say that our ancestors who all made lunar calendars never noticed anything about the influence of the Moon on their crops, they who did everything empirically with like base observation

in short, it was necessary for a philosopher to want to “restore the link between Man and the spiritual worlds” for us to notice the influence of the Moon on cultures, even if his own disciples are not entirely made in agreement with him