Le Potager du Sloth: Gardening without fatigue more than Bio

Agriculture and soil. Pollution control, soil remediation, humus and new agricultural techniques.
phil53
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Re: The Kitchen Garden Sloth: Gardening without fatigue more than Bio




by phil53 » 02/12/20, 15:21

It is a Pézize. The orange pezize is eaten raw. Nothing extraordinary in taste. The brown I don't know
For hay, the first time I read Didier, I made the same thought, I noticed the phenomenon of hay germination. I think you put your hay in the wrong time. It got wet while it was still hot so it sprouted and the hay did not dry on the surface this season, the seedlings settled down. AT
place before it becomes too implanted, I would pass the rake so as to put the seedlings under and decompact the hay.
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Re: The Kitchen Garden Sloth: Gardening without fatigue more than Bio




by Rajqawee » 02/12/20, 15:23

Did67 wrote:
You have to confront this with 3 very different notions:

a) the resistance of vegetables: from when they "burst" (burst, etc ...) [this is called "hardiness"]

b) the growth of vegetables: from when they no longer grow [it is zero vegetation, much higher]

c) there, it was a question of the biological activity of the soil, in particular nitrification, which, during this period, one can assimilate to a risk of pollution ... Fortunately, nature is damn good (it is not the first time I say it!): the bacteria are in the fridge with much higher ground temperatures (nitrification is slowed down from + 14 ° C; we can say that it stops around + 10 ° C)


So basically, a "cold enough" soil avoids nitrification (from + 14 ° C). Leaching of nitrates is limited as long as the temperatures do not drop below the vegetation zero (say 5 to 6 °) - the plants (vegetables or green manure) to grow and consume ... Below, the growth stops and nitrification is blocked. Eureka.

Note also that the temperature gradient goes from top to bottom. Exactly as the nitrifiable MO contents (if we do not bury them!). Consistent, right ???

I had the notions of growth / yield in mind, but not of nitrification, despite having read your book. Yes, it's damn good, if you don't touch it too much it works quite well!

In fact, if we have to modify, we must manage to modify both the temperature of the air, and of the soil, so that it remains consistent? Let's say it's really cold, the ground will stay cold, even if the air above heats up, right?
And suddenly, we fall back into seasonal crops eventually ... plants capable of growing at low temperatures (say between 5 and 15) will consume the few nitrates that will be created by biological activity.
So, the greenhouses in winter, would it be badly played?
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Re: The Kitchen Garden Sloth: Gardening without fatigue more than Bio




by Raph49 » 02/12/20, 15:36

phil53 wrote:It is a Pézize. The orange pezize is eaten raw. Nothing extraordinary in taste. The brown I don't know
For hay, the first time I read Didier, I made the same thought, I noticed the phenomenon of hay germination. I think you put your hay in the wrong time. It got wet while it was still hot so it sprouted and the hay did not dry on the surface this season, the seedlings settled down. AT
place before it becomes too implanted, I would pass the rake so as to put the seedlings under and decompact the hay.


Okay, I had placed the hay in September, at the base they are square bales made of "plates" 10 cm thick.

So I covered the whole ground with these plates, and I watered while settling.

The period for hay mulching is rather from when to when in terms of months, in order to avoid this kind of germination?

And I guess you shouldn't water the hay either ... :?
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Re: The Kitchen Garden Sloth: Gardening without fatigue more than Bio




by Did67 » 02/12/20, 18:10

This mishap is sometimes pointed out to me (but remains exceptional).

I think the nature of the hay plays out, without confirmation. It seems to me a higher risk with hay coming from "temporary meadows" (it is cultivated grass, in the same way as wheat ...). We then use raygrass, which has large seeds, which have a lot of reserves ...

Then, indeed, humidity is essential: this happens when it rains long enough for it to germinate, then take root and in time to pass through the hay for the grass seedlings to reach the ground - which is fine. very quickly ! AND there, obviously, they will experience a resplendent development ...

I've never encountered this problem - so I didn't mention the parade in my books!

From the first "window" of good weather, you have to lift and turn the hay as if it were withered, with a fork. The seedlings, pulled up, wither and die.
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Re: The Kitchen Garden Sloth: Gardening without fatigue more than Bio




by Did67 » 02/12/20, 18:25

Raph49 wrote:
The period for hay mulching is rather from when to when in terms of months, in order to avoid this kind of germination?



Today, because my tactics have evolved, I proceed as follows, on surfaces already in a vegetable garden (initially, I started out from the meadow; then, I put the hay in the second half of November, so as to "smother" the sod in place, and that it dies / begins to decompose before the next growing season).

a) Where I am going to sow in place (around mid-May): I start from clean land, where I remove the "crop remains" (which will create obstacles for me to cut the furrows in which I sow) ; I put the hay towards the end of February / beginning of March; I try to make it suffer a few rains, so that it soaks up and settles down

b) Where I plant, I let the weeds grow in the previous fall (which are my green manures that I don't have to sow); I leave or put there the "remains" of cultures (especially those of a); I put the hay later (to distribute the work!), there I can put in the morning and plant in the afternoon; I can also plant and put the hay afterwards (for example in case of development of the plants but lack of hay ...), but it is much more annoying (to "turn around the plants")

The thickness of the layer is adapted to what I put on. Basically,

a) pdt: double layer, because part will decompose during the summer; at the time of tuberization, there is a shortage of hay, the tubers are uncovered and turn green; therefore double layer (the remains of which must be removed when harvesting)

b) "dressed" and "covering" vegetables (cabbage, beets, Swiss chard chop, artichokes, tomatoes ...): I put a 1/2 dose, the time to give them a head start; then the hay disappears, covering weeds (that I have selected and disseminated in previous years) settle and cover the ground, while producing biomass (which I no longer need to bring) and to the autumn, once the vegetables are harvested, give me "the green manure that I didn't have to sow!" (to absorb my nitrates and keep them for the following year, where I will "crush" them with a roll of hay ...)

c) vegetables "not covering enough" (onions, garlic, leeks, etc.): a normal dose; until harvest approaches, it is the hay that keeps it clean enough so that there is no severe competition; harvested early, usually there is still a crop after; sometimes, but rarely, I recharge ... Since we are going towards the fall, a cohabitation with weeds suits me ...

Here, a little the "framework" of reflection according to which I operate ...
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Re: The Kitchen Garden Sloth: Gardening without fatigue more than Bio




by Did67 » 02/12/20, 18:28

I was negligent and not insistent enough on the fact that the "PP" is not a recipe, but a "scheme of reflection", to appropriate and adapt to its climate, its soil ...

I insisted a little more on this point in the second book, when I realized how much I was "copied as" (and therefore, that it could not work - there is only in one "artificialized" agriculture, with "controlled factors" that one can follow a recipe; in a natural vegetable garden based on cooperation with living things, one must ... cooperate with one's living!). It was a bit late ...
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Re: The Kitchen Garden Sloth: Gardening without fatigue more than Bio




by Adrien (ex-nico239) » 02/12/20, 19:48

Raph49 wrote:The problem is that this hay grows back on itself in thick clumps and ends up taking root even through 10 centimeters of packed hay.


Are you sure that it is the hay that you put down that grows ???

And not just the herbs that were there before that run through it?

Have you tried on 1m2 to experience putting a thickness of 50cm of hay (or more) and compare to see if you have as abundant emergence as in the photos?
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Re: The Kitchen Garden Sloth: Gardening without fatigue more than Bio




by Raph49 » 02/12/20, 20:06

Did67 wrote:I was negligent and not insistent enough on the fact that the "PP" is not a recipe, but a "scheme of reflection", to appropriate and adapt to its climate, its soil ...

I insisted a little more on this point in the second book, when I realized how much I was "copied as" (and therefore, that it could not work - there is only in one "artificialized" agriculture, with "controlled factors" that one can follow a recipe; in a natural vegetable garden based on cooperation with living things, one must ... cooperate with one's living!). It was a bit late ...


Thank you for this precious information Didier, indeed I will adapt the technique to my parameters, but as I have never cultivated anything until now I will probably make a series of errors.

So I will try to mulch at the beginning or the end of winter and avoid the end of summer for germinations.

And return it all to the hay fork to prevent it from taking root.

The guy who delivers the hay to me came back today to deliver more and he seemed to be impressed with the organic matter generated by his delivery this fall. : Cheesy:
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Re: The Kitchen Garden Sloth: Gardening without fatigue more than Bio




by phil53 » 02/12/20, 21:27

"And flip it all over to the hay fork to keep it from taking root."
Yes it is a solution, what counts is to prevent the roots from settling.
You will see with practice you will adapt and put into practice what Didier explains very well earlier in the thread.
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Re: The Kitchen Garden Sloth: Gardening without fatigue more than Bio




by Raph49 » 03/12/20, 00:44

Adrien (ex-nico239) wrote:
Raph49 wrote:The problem is that this hay grows back on itself in thick clumps and ends up taking root even through 10 centimeters of packed hay.


Are you sure that it is the hay that you put down that grows ???

And not just the herbs that were there before that run through it?

Have you tried on 1m2 to experience putting a thickness of 50cm of hay (or more) and compare to see if you have as abundant emergence as in the photos?


Certain, since I had boots not yet spread which took on water for a few months, and on the top they had "tifs" of 15 centimeters while they were 1 meter from the ground (3 levels of boots ).

In addition, this type of herb is not naturally present in my garden.
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