Successful live soil cultivation in commercial production greenhouses

Agriculture and soil. Pollution control, soil remediation, humus and new agricultural techniques.
izentrop
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Re: Successful live soil cultivation in commercial production greenhouses




by izentrop » 25/10/21, 01:58

Obamot wrote:I'm willing to bet these tomatoes will be tastier than Spanish sprouted tomatoes ...
I ask to see. :)

Mulet said at 4:20: "the challenge is to obtain an identical or even better production quality" and it remains above ground since in bins.
Now, feeding plants only with organic matter is a thing of the future.

Quality green waste, as he says, will require a dedicated cultivation, can be several times the surface of greenhouses as for the hay of Didier's phenoculture, plus the late trees where the branches are extracted for the BRF.
As a result, we go to 600 KG / 4 or 6 ha, see more if in the greenhouse area we do not count the area of ​​the foot loops. Even probably X 4 as Mulet also says, do not kid ourselves. 20 ha nearby like at Bec Helloin?

With the scarcity of fossil fuels, we will not be able to feed as much as we used to ... It is already underway today https://www.bfmtv.com/economie/entrepri ... 30107.html
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Re: Successful live soil cultivation in commercial production greenhouses




by Obamot » 25/10/21, 09:08

izentrop wrote:
Obamot wrote:I'm willing to bet these tomatoes will be tastier than Spanish sprouted tomatoes ...
I ask to see. :)

Mulet said at 4:20: "the challenge is to obtain an identical or even better production quality" and it remains above ground since in bins.
Now, feeding plants only with organic matter is a thing of the future.

Quality green waste, as he says, will require a dedicated cultivation, can be several times the surface of greenhouses as for the hay of Didier's phenoculture, plus the late trees where the branches are extracted for the BRF.
As a result, we go to 600 KG / 4 or 6 ha, see more if in the greenhouse area we do not count the area of ​​the foot loops. Even probably X 4 as Mulet also says, do not kid ourselves. 20 ha nearby like at Bec Helloin?

With the scarcity of fossil fuels, we will not be able to feed as much as we used to ... It is already underway today https://www.bfmtv.com/economie/entrepri ... 30107.html
izentrop wrote:
taken from Izentrop's link wrote:Nitrogen fertilizers are made from ammonia, obtained by combining nitrogen from the air and hydrogen from natural gas. Almost 80% of the cost of producing ammonia is linked to the use of gas. There are three types of these fertilizers: nitrogenous solution, in liquid form, ammonitrate and urea, in granular form.
There is an inexhaustible source of ammonia requiring zero carbon emissions, guess which one?

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humus
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Re: Successful live soil cultivation in commercial production greenhouses




by humus » 25/10/21, 09:41

izentrop wrote:With the scarcity of fossil fuels, we will not be able to feed as much as we used to ... It is already underway today https://www.bfmtv.com/economie/entrepri ... 30107.html

But in the short term, for Unifa (French fertilizer producers), it is hardly possible to replace chemical solutions with organic fertilizers: "The nitrogen level is much lower in organic matter", affirms its general delegate. Florence Nys. "In terms of volumes and efficiency, it is wind power versus nuclear power."


I have no action in them (bacteriosol) and I have no personal experience feedback but simply for the principle, I remain convinced that we can fertilize in a natural way.
https://www.sobac.fr/sites/default/file ... 2015-2.pdf
The living can do everything, he did not wait for us.
Nitrogen is available in the air, yaka use the good organisms that make it usable for plants. To do this, you already have to look and be a little open.
and like the Obamot highlight with a yellow line : Arrow: looping back the cycles already would not be bad.
The sea does not need our yellow gold.

Fertilizer sellers must innovate if they do not want to perish with their fossil sources.
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Re: Successful live soil cultivation in commercial production greenhouses




by Obamot » 25/10/21, 09:53

Izentrop is right about the fact that the axis of his speech is made of pure realism, a bit like Moindreffor (of the genre):
- “there is a world population to feed, and in the current state there is no other choice than the techniques of agribusiness,”

(since it is he who feeds the populations which are not “self-sufficient”). The point is that there are scarce resources on both sides of consumers who are increasingly expressing the desire to eat healthier.

You're right in the sense that the only way out is to have an open mind.
I see this open-mindedness in this thread as well.
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Re: Successful live soil cultivation in commercial production greenhouses




by izentrop » 25/10/21, 10:14

humus wrote:But in the short term, for Unifa (French fertilizer producers), it is hardly possible to replace chemical solutions with organic fertilizers: "The nitrogen level is much lower in organic matter", affirms its general delegate. Florence Nys. "In terms of volumes and efficiency, it is wind power versus nuclear power."

I have no action in them (bacteriosol) and I have no personal experience feedback but simply for the principle, I remain convinced that we can fertilize in a natural way.
No one disputes that, but already from the point of view of handling and transport, synthetic fertilizers use much less petroleum ...

Have a Comifer document which indicates a need for 420 kg / ha of nitrogen to produce 200 t of tomatoes in a heated greenhouse https://comifer.asso.fr/images/pdf/Tabl ... 0ctifl.pdf.
This would mean that to produce 600 t it takes 3 times as much. I would like to know the recipe for their compost :?: :?: :P
Personally I have my secret boot https://www.leesu.fr/ocapi/wp-content/u ... s_INRA.pdf
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humus
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Re: Successful live soil cultivation in commercial production greenhouses




by humus » 25/10/21, 11:01

izentrop wrote:
humus wrote:But in the short term, for Unifa (French fertilizer producers), it is hardly possible to replace chemical solutions with organic fertilizers: "The nitrogen level is much lower in organic matter", affirms its general delegate. Florence Nys. "In terms of volumes and efficiency, it is wind power versus nuclear power."

I have no action in them (bacteriosol) and I have no personal experience feedback but simply for the principle, I remain convinced that we can fertilize in a natural way.
No one disputes that, but already from the point of view of handling and transport, synthetic fertilizers use much less petroleum ...

Have a Comifer document which indicates a need for 420 kg / ha of nitrogen to produce 200 t of tomatoes in a heated greenhouse https://comifer.asso.fr/images/pdf/Tabl ... 0ctifl.pdf.
This would mean that to produce 600 t it takes 3 times as much. I would like to know the recipe for their compost :?: :?: :P
Personally I have my secret boot https://www.leesu.fr/ocapi/wp-content/u ... s_INRA.pdf

Interesting, however in my garden I do not put any nitrogen fertilizer and I have crops.
Certainly I do not calculate the yield but it grows all the same without external nitrogen input.
I only put in semi-composted BRF (because it was stored too long) or fresh in the fall.
The ground is a little closer to a forest ground, far from the desert (bare ground) of my neighbors. : Wink:
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Re: Successful live soil cultivation in commercial production greenhouses




by izentrop » 25/10/21, 12:27

You have a risk of nitrogen hunger. Root vegetables like celeriac and squash, how do you get?

Benoît Noel calculated the BRF needed to maintain productive fertility.
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humus
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Re: Successful live soil cultivation in commercial production greenhouses




by humus » 25/10/21, 15:25

izentrop wrote:You have a risk of nitrogen hunger. Root vegetables like celeriac and squash, how do you get?

Benoît Noel calculated the BRF needed to maintain productive fertility.

Even though I promote humus, I am not very good at gardening. : Wink:

I don't make celery but red beets (from Egypt) and pumpkin (red kuri), I'm happy with that. : Wink: everything went well.
Zucchini OK too, beautiful green leaves.
As said elsewhere, the tomatoes were ravaged by mildew but otherwise they were off to a good start too.

The pumpkin I made on 2 types of soil
- in the ground + BRF like everything else above.
- and also in a 60cm tank of "soil" isolated from the earth by plastic.
In the bin are decaying logs and semi-composted BRF + recent on the surface
I had powdery mildew on both types of soil but it does not prevent the plant from living and producing.
With the 2 floors it looks the same.
Unfortunately I do not do statistics with number of feet, surface, yield etc ...
I had 24 pumpkin fruits, zucchini all summer until recently, and beets to resell in the ground.

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Re: Successful live soil cultivation in commercial production greenhouses




by humus » 25/10/21, 15:59

Without knowing it, I am not very far from the self-fertile scheme of Benoit Noel, except that I do anything! : Lol:
I don't do the rotations he specifies and I put BRF everywhere the same all the time.
I will be inspired. : Wink:
Although I would probably never make cereal.
and biomax cekoidon? : Shock:
Benoit Noel.png
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Re: Successful live soil cultivation in commercial production greenhouses




by humus » 25/10/21, 16:34

answer to the question, Biomax =
http://agriculture-de-conservation.com/ ... rment.html

This cover which combines a good dozen plants, including a good proportion of legumes (field peas, field beans, vetch, clovers) in association with radishes, sunflower, mustard, phacelia, nyger, flax, camelina
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