Start the "phenoculture"

Agriculture and soil. Pollution control, soil remediation, humus and new agricultural techniques.
Régine
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Re: Start "phenoculture"




by Régine » 08/04/21, 12:02

Doris wrote:
Régine wrote:Can I therefore go to the tiller for the first time, deposit this hay and in May, proceed with my sowing, transplanting and planting? and obviously, end of the year, I don't touch it anymore except for adding hay. What do you think?

Store the tiller as far as possible : Cheesy: , well I'm joking, but if there are tufts of grass or other weeds, you just have to cut it all down, cutting very short, I did it with a brush cutter, and you leave everything in place, it already gives you a little organic matter. You will still have regrowth, but that controls well, if your cover is thick enough.
You mention potatoes, it's a good plan for a first year, it's a real ripper of the soil. And above all, take the time to let your new system set up, and indulge yourself.



Good idea the brush cutter !!! Thank you for the good advice : Wink:
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Re: Start "phenoculture"




by Régine » 08/04/21, 12:09

pi-r wrote:just a small clarification: if you have little or no access to hay, do not forget the "substitutes" to obtain sufficient coverage!
there is plenty of organic matter that can help ...
good luck



yes thank you but what do you advise me? fresh grass thinly?
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Re: Start "phenoculture"




by Ahmed » 08/04/21, 13:28

If you use fresh grass, it will not be durable and too nitrogenous, because it is too herbaceous: you should mix this with something more woody, like BRF or similar to rebalance the C / N ratio (carbon on nitrogen, a fundamental thing, so you might as well familiarize yourself with this notion) ...
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Re: Start "phenoculture"




by Doris » 08/04/21, 13:44

Régine wrote: But I understand that most of your plantings go through transplanting.
For carrot seedlings, my soil being very heavy, I always made a furrow and filled with a mixture of terror and sand. I will try the same for this year.

Without wanting to disturb the inter-Belgian exchange, I will just take the liberty of answering the question of transplanting: I believe there are several of us doing most of our cultures with transplanting, quite simply because for my part
1) I have trouble with direct seedlings, because I have a lot of organic matter on my sandy soil, and therefore all the time also matter at a stage of decomposition, which makes germination difficult, or so material, which does not lend itself to it, such as ground material
2) According to our different climate, it is one of the safest way to control temperature, humidity and soil pest access
3) for carrots transplanting turns out to be complicated and therefore direct sowing, there I have one in progress it has emerged, I have the impression that it works (mixed sowing of carrots and radish). Obviously, being on sandy soil, I won't add more sand, but even in heavy soil, don't underestimate the carrots, it's coustaud, I have family with a vegetable garden in clay soil, they just make a carrot seed-sand mixture, to have a softer seedling, and their carrots are beautiful every year.
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Re: Start "phenoculture"




by Doris » 08/04/21, 13:56

Régine wrote:
pi-r wrote:just a small clarification: if you have little or no access to hay, do not forget the "substitutes" to obtain sufficient coverage!
there is plenty of organic matter that can help ...
good luck



yes thank you but what do you advise me? fresh grass thinly?

There are lots of things, herbs in a thin layer but mixed with something else, (look at Ahmed's post for that), leaves, brf, shredded when we prune these hedges (here I have a lot of eleagnus , it's excellent) ...... With the only downside (nod to pi-r): the birds love to scratch in it, and fuck you all up in the air. I just lost a seedling of spinach for that, yet I discarded the mashed eleagnus, but no. I'll try somewhere else, and if I don't want to, well I do without (some on the PP wire know my misadventures of last year, zero cabbage, zero radish, zero peas, very salads. little in the spring because of slugs, then losing a line of spinach seems very small next to that, everything is relativized)
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Re: Start "phenoculture"




by stephgouv » 08/04/21, 14:18

Régine wrote:Hello Steph,

I am glad to hear that you are also a bit of a novice and I will be able to follow your experience 8)
I guess the soil is pretty hard the first year but surprised to see you were able to harvest so many vegetables. Congratulations !!! It comforts me and I think I have all my chances this year. But I understand that most of your plantings go through transplanting.
For carrot seedlings, my soil being very heavy, I always made a furrow and filled with a mixture of terror and sand. I will try the same for this year.
I dream of setting up a greenhouse but I am struggling to find a workforce : roll: , do you do the same in your greenhouse?
Over the past year, have you already seen a change in the quality of the soil? So you do not add anything apart from the hay?

I can't wait to go back to the garden :)

thank you for your experience sharing :)... I will keep you posted on my progress :P

Do not hesitate to read the beginning of the different posts. You will see how we started and what were our "slippages".
What's great is that we all come from a different region and therefore everything is different, except our desire for a good "vegetable garden".
When I planted the onion and shallot bulbs this year, I felt that the soil had improved (grazed) compared to last year. I will see in the other places of the vegetable garden during transplanting.
If you want success, do as many seedlings as possible and then transplant.
When sowing carrots, make sure to keep the furrow open during emergence.
In my artisanal greenhouse, I put the tomatoes, peppers and I had made a test with about 80cm of spinach (double harvest).
Of course you have all your chances, because your vegetable garden will only improve (deterioration and contribution of organic matter).
Apart from the hay, last year I added 3x grass clippings in a thin layer of 4-5cm and I also dump organic kitchen waste in it.
This year I brought BRF to strawberries and berry shrubs and hay over everything else again at the end of February.
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Re: Start "phenoculture"




by alkaline » 08/04/21, 15:31

Régine wrote:Over the past year, have you already seen a change in the quality of the soil?

Hello Régine, I started to make a vegetable garden 2 years ago by covering the ground with hay and other mulch, it was a very poor and dry backfill soil. And yes I saw an undeniable change in the soil, a lot of earthworm castings, the soil softer and on a thickness of 3/4 cm it is darker too. I also see mycorrhizal filaments.

I still have a lot of quackgrass and bindweed but I'm pulling, as Didier said, it's an investment!
I must admit that when it comes to harvest and production, I don't see any improvement, but 2 seasons of decline is too little and too early to compare. I didn't have a vegetable garden before.

Régine wrote:So you do not add anything apart from the hay?
Hay and other mulches: leaves, cut grass, straw, BRF, green manure - I had put Phacelia and I am very happy because it grows quickly and comes off easily. I also put horse dung that I collect and kitchen waste in compost. Having said that, I find that my vegetables remain very small, I think it takes time to really improve the soil.

Régine wrote:I can't wait to go back to the garden :)
thank you for your experience sharing :)... I will keep you posted on my progress :P
Ah yes I can not wait too :) we will follow all this with interest : Wink:
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Re: Start "phenoculture"




by pi-r » 08/04/21, 20:42

Doris wrote:
Régine wrote:
pi-r wrote:just a small clarification: if you have little or no access to hay, do not forget the "substitutes" to obtain sufficient coverage!
there is plenty of organic matter that can help ...
good luck



yes thank you but what do you advise me? fresh grass thinly?

There are lots of things, herbs in a thin layer but mixed with something else, (look at Ahmed's post for that), leaves, brf, shredded when we prune these hedges (here I have a lot of eleagnus , it's excellent) ...... With the only downside (nod to pi-r): the birds love to scratch in it, and fuck you all up in the air. I just lost a seedling of spinach for that, yet I discarded the mashed eleagnus, but no. I'll try somewhere else, and if I don't want to, well I do without (some on the PP wire know my misadventures of last year, zero cabbage, zero radish, zero peas, very salads. little in the spring because of slugs, then losing a line of spinach seems very small next to that, everything is relativized)

+1 with all that is said!
Personally I add the "ammonia" straw and any contribution / mixture of organic matter which respects a good C / N ratio ....
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Re: Start "phenoculture"




by Moindreffor » 09/04/21, 20:28

at the PP everything is good, so don't worry too much, you just have to keep in mind in a simplified way that the greener the more it is great and that the more it is brown the longer it takes

the super of allows to boost your culture, but you quickly empty the tank, it is necessary to renew, the brown, it grazes at the beginning, but after a year or even a little more this is what is the best to improve the soil

and therefore between pure uses of grass or forest pallet, you have all the possible mixtures, it all depends on your patience and what you want to cultivate
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Régine
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Re: Start "phenoculture"




by Régine » 16/04/21, 15:42

ok, I will make sure to mix it up a bit but hey, I thought I understood from Didier (following his book) that it was not ideal. In fact it amounts to growing in lasagna except that here we mix. thank you : Wink:
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