Seedling soil?

Agriculture and soil. Pollution control, soil remediation, humus and new agricultural techniques.
Moindreffor
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Re: Sowing soil?




by Moindreffor » 17/08/19, 14:13

Did67 wrote:Depending on the location, you can find sand in a river ... It doesn't have to be clean sand, like building (this sand is too coarse, by the way). Neither very clean fine sand as that used in swimming pool filters ...

During composting, several phases follow one another:

a) the hot phase, predominantly "bacterial"; it is the waste rich in N, wet, which mineralizes very quickly; once these elements are scarce, the bacteria calm down

b) the cold phase which follows then mainly concerns the fungi, which attack the more fibrous elements - cellulose and especially lignin; they manufacture "pre-humic" substances

At the beginning, we have something that still looks quite like the stems we put. The mushrooms are still at work. One can have formation of anti-germinating substances, in particular in the heart of the heaps. It is the fresh compost, which we can put on the cover, which will continue its evolution ... While being wary just if we sow or if we cover sown furrows!

The work continues more slowly and little by little, we get a darker, more decomposed material, where what has been put is hardly recognizable. The mineralization is more advanced. Humification has started. It's ripe compost.

Ideally, do not put a bin: a pile of compost, it lives! And we live less well in a "bac" ...

The ideal is the largest possible pile (the "edges" always pose problems - too wet, too dry, too hot, too cold ...); the bigger and proportionally, the less "edges" there are!

Protected from light and ideally from rain (which will wash out the mineral elements resulting from mineralization - especially N and K)

Maintained wet but not too much.

Brewed regularly to oxygenate.

Good compost is a bit of a job. It is not just a "rotten"!

well I see more clearly, but I think that I will have to do in that in a container, I already tried to stock my clippings in these containers and if it is not dry it rots in the bottom actually, and I found humidity there, even a little water
so i will try and i will keep you posted on my testing
if not i can recover sea sand you just have to wash it to desalt it, after that you don't need tons so the finest sand in a material store should do it, or so what is called rabbit sand by our place, sometimes when there is work of passage of cables we can take a little on the side of the roads
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Re: Sowing soil?




by GuyGadebois » 17/08/19, 14:28

Moindreffor wrote:otherwise I can recover sea sand, we just have to wash it to desalt it ...

An activity prohibited by law

In their entirety, the beaches belong to the public domain. They are therefore property of the state which grants the operation and management to local communities. Pursuant to article L.321-8 of the Environment Code, the collection of sand by the beach is strictly prohibited

Source: https://renseigner.com/maison/bricolage ... able-plage
Imagearticle L.321-8 of the Environment Code.
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Moindreffor
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Re: Sowing soil?




by Moindreffor » 17/08/19, 14:38

GuyGadebois wrote:
Moindreffor wrote:otherwise I can recover sea sand, we just have to wash it to desalt it ...

An activity prohibited by law

In their entirety, the beaches belong to the public domain. They are therefore property of the state which grants the operation and management to local communities. Pursuant to article L.321-8 of the Environment Code, the collection of sand by the beach is strictly prohibited

Source: https://renseigner.com/maison/bricolage ... able-plage
Imagearticle L.321-8 of the Environment Code.

I know but there is a tolerance, it's like picking up pebbles, it's also forbidden but we will not draw up a report to a little girl who brings a pebble in a bucket, we just have to stay reasonable
so everything is a question of quantity, after like I said there are other resources, I live far from the sea but I go there from time to time, so a small bucket from time to time is acceptable, after there are also sandbox more or less abandoned in my corner, there it is less far, so there is a way, if not a bag of 40 kg or L of sand it is 2 or 3 euros so there is something to do already
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Did67
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Re: Sowing soil?




by Did67 » 17/08/19, 18:59

It is the same for those who take land in the forest. Or dead wood. Theoretically, this is prohibited.

But it is true that the beaches are more watched. And there are more issues. And that are added some specific laws having consolidated the public domain that is the shore ...

So for sure, it's better to be wary.
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Re: Sowing soil?




by Did67 » 17/08/19, 19:00

Moindreffor wrote:if not i can recover sea sand you just have to wash it to desalt it, after that you don't need tons so the finest sand in a material store should do it, or so what is called rabbit sand by our place, sometimes when there is work of passage of cables we can take a little on the side of the roads


Order of magnitude: 1/3 of sand for 2/3 of ripe compost.
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Re: Sowing soil?




by Moindreffor » 18/08/19, 00:53

Did67 wrote:
Moindreffor wrote:if not i can recover sea sand you just have to wash it to desalt it, after that you don't need tons so the finest sand in a material store should do it, or so what is called rabbit sand by our place, sometimes when there is work of passage of cables we can take a little on the side of the roads


Order of magnitude: 1/3 of sand for 2/3 of ripe compost.

in the article you quote, there is 50% garden soil it seems to me
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Re: Sowing soil?




by izentrop » 18/08/19, 01:46

Moindreffor wrote:in the article you quote, there is 50% garden soil it seems to me
Yes indeed, same as in this video


I've been doing this lately, but what they forget to say is that compost and garden soil should not contain seeds. My compost is not worth it, I do not pass the thermal phase. I used green waste compost stored for a year but unprotected.
Total: seedlings overgrown with weeds, especially nettles at home that grow faster than seedlings :x

In the article cited:
Pasteurized soil: to avoid the proliferation of fungi or pathogenic bacteria, it is important to rid the substrate of the germs that it contains naturally. https://www.gerbeaud.com/jardin/fiches/ ... ,1373.html
Why not go to the oven to also eliminate the "bad" seeds? It would be cheaper than buying it all done.

Recently I tried unsuccessfully to grow STEVIA REBAUDIANA. I'm going to try again with a potting soil, indoors. My wife buys stevia powder at 150 kg, it might be worth cultivating it. : Wink:
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Re: Sowing soil?




by Did67 » 18/08/19, 10:29

The earth is not only sand, hence probably this difference in appreciation. Fine sand is poor. It's just for easy drainage. But don't overdo it.

But conversely, 50%, depending on the soil, it can be a bit "heavy" for those with clay soils.

However, it will work in all cases. Simply, at the margin, there will be some annoying effects: too poor mixture, too mineral or on the contrary, too heavy, compact.

Be wary of ready-made recipes. Even if they are popular on the internet.

Prefer to experiment.

What is needed is a "mineral / OM" mixture, and that this mixture be very draining. Ideally seed free. But in my mind, sterilization is abuse. If we certainly destroy some possible parasites (fungi of "damping off" genus Pythium for example), we also destroy the good ones, including mycorrhizal fungi.

And indeed, it is rare that a compost (in a heap or in a composter) reaches in all points the temperatures necessary for a hygienization, that is to say at least 65 ° C. I recall that at this temperature, one "burns" ( first degree). We can't shake hands. It is a very simple test. It is also linked: if it "destroys" the seeds, or fungi / bacteria, it "destroys" the skin cells! Conversely, if it does not burn, if we can leave the hand, it is because it does not hygienize!

Despite the seed problem, I will try with a mixture that comes from "scraping" what is left of the rotting hay and the top layer of soil. In my two frames, I had put a thick layer of hay before summer, then planted melons in one, sweet potato in the other (just to occupy them). This hay should finish its surface decomposition as soon as the humidity returns. And I think "scrape that off."

And of course, I'll give the microorganisms in the soil a chance, and hope for an early encounter between my plants and the mycorrhizal fungi. At the risk of illness! There is no perfect solution to this world. But the "WC duck effects" (killing bacteria and microorganisms all the time as if there were only bad ones) seems to me an obsession of the gardeners of paradigm 1.

I would have to weed my buckets. Sitting at the garden table, this is compatible with a certain degree of laziness. Mechanical gesture. Meditation. New ideas coming ... Less comfortable than the deckchair, however, let's be lucid! No way to read at the same time, for example.
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Re: Sowing soil?




by sicetaitsimple » 18/08/19, 10:38

Moindreffor wrote:I know but there is a tolerance, it's like picking up pebbles, it is also prohibited but we will not draw up a report to a little girl who brings a pebble in a bucket, you just have to stay reasonable so everything is a question of quantity


There are still freaks capable of wanting to bring 40kg of sand from Sardinia! For once (see article), it will really make them a memory!
https://www.ladepeche.fr/2019/08/18/deu ... 365700.php
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Re: Sowing soil?




by Did67 » 18/08/19, 10:53

FYI, by chance in a German store, I found an "organic" phosphate-free liquid fertilizer.

I want to explore the question of the fertilization of the compost after the observation that a professional sowing compost had given weak plants, remained weak, until the moment when on two occasions, I put a dose of liquid fertilizer "plants green "(not organic), for the test. With spectacular results!

The absence of P interests me since we know that around 50 to 100 of P [I would have to go back to my book on mycorrhizae to find the more precise figure] in the soil, mycorrhization is inhibited.

So I'm going to test this NK fertilizer ...
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