Question to Didier: hay and weeds?

[nathaliekeller]

Hello Didier,

After a first season under hay here is what I saw:

* in spring small shoots of weeds from the hay.
* now that the season has passed and the hay is well packed, I have places where the weeds mingle a lot with hay! What to do ? Put a layer of hay like that or do a manual pulling and put back hay?
* Moreover, I consider that the season went very well (I am in the Maine et Loire) with various fortunes (but this is only my second year: a year in traditional and a year in hay). I only watered the watering can three times, about sixty watering can of 20 liters.
* the source of hay is a real question: what hay to take? What should it be composed of?

Thank you very much for your answer and nice autumn.

Nathalie KELLER

[phil53]

For the prelle, the rumex, thistle, bramble, all root with reserve, it is better to tear off. For the rest to cover generously.
For hay in the broad sense, I glean. There are everywhere cut surfaces and abandoned grasses.
I also ask the municipal services of the mowing. Near shared gardens, many people put waste (for them) plant.
It's more work than buying, for sure.

[Yool]

On the right corner, there are haystacks proposed by farmers quite easily. Normally it is necessarily without treatment.

For my part I have for 3e50 the haystack (in the form of right pad). I order 8 for about 1 year of use.

[jardama]

It's been four years since I covered the ground with hay. The first three years with rectangular boots, medium density, 2 euros boot. I had bought about sixty.
Then last year, where I bought them, the price went from 2 to 2,5 €. I looked elsewhere and found a farmer who offered me the extra delivery, but they are old-fashioned boots, if I may say so, baler that ties up the hay, it is not compressed. Well whatever; € 1,25 a bunch but they are less "heavy" (5 to 6 kg). I took a hundred.
I took into account the indications of Didier in his book (233) and I made sure that where I put it there is a good layer. I put it in January-February because I had time to do it at that time.
I am very happy with the result.

[to be chafoin]

Yes I would say that the hay compression can be a criterion of selection of hay, if we have the choice. Large rectangular boots are sometimes compressed at high density by "modern" machines. This can be very practical in particular for certain plantations (good cover against weeds, easy installation in "doormats" mode which are detached one by one from the boot and which last the whole season, "it is not necessary to add more ") but this also has drawbacks (making a furrow or even a hole in it is sometimes not easy, difficulty in crossing for the bulbs, it must then be thinner).

[jardama]

Yes, this is a question I asked myself during this year. What was it going to do if the hay was not compressed? Maybe weeds tended to pass a little more through but where I had put a real good layer, no.
It is not easy to cut to make furrows either because it is thick and a little "soft". I equipped my brush cutter with a disc, it greatly facilitates things. The first two years I did it with a hay knife.

[Did67]

Travel, return, overflows, visitors ... I had not seen.

For the most part, the answers were made:

a) What hay?

Typical question of a "reasoning" which has not yet made its mutations ... We are looking for "what to do" to "do well".

So just consider that many succeed in gardening honorably, sometimes even well, with materials that are far away, question of nutritional qualities, from the worst of hay!

With the exception of hay that is too rich in nitrogen and not sufficiently fibrous (dried grass clippings and second cuts also known as "regrowth"), all hay is already luxury! Even the one kept for 20 years at the bottom of a barn (dry).

Hay that has taken in water, and started to mold, will have lost a little energy, gone in the air ... But will remain richer than the "dead wood" cherished by some!

b) rebellious weeds

There are indeed weeds that pierce the hay layer.

There are three types:

1) plants with a fleshy root, from which they grow year n + 1: dandelion, thistle (true thistle = cirse), rumex (wild sorrel) ...

There, the simplest is a fork to spade to pluck the root.

2) plants with rhizomes (or pseudo-rhizomes): quackgrass, nettles, bindweed ...

With the exception of bindweed, which "hides" its rhizomes too deeply, they will spread their rhizomes between the hay and the surface layer of "aggradated" earth. By pulling on the plants that pierce the hay, we can pick up beautiful pieces of rhizomes ... This gradually weakens them. The rhizomes can be dried (until they are brittle) and put on the surface as excellent soil food (or compost).

The bindweed is the exception: you have to tear it off as soon as it points and do not relax the effort (this is the only one we have left to do). By force, to rebuild its stems + leaves, it takes energy from the rhizome; if we tear it off before it has had time to recharge, little by little (allow 5 years anyway to reduce it, without necessarily getting rid of it)

3) Plants that walk or suck, such as yarrow or cinquefoil, and a few others ...

Their principle is different: I install a "base" (in an aisle); this plant will photosynthesize and supply you with runners and suckers until it is sufficiently developed and becomes autonomous; and in turn, she will do the same ...

There, it is the rear base that must be eradicated: I remove the aisles and I tear off; very quickly that regresses ...

NB: Never, in a living garden, want to "eradicate" (weeds, parasites, etc.) ... Always assess the damage ... If they are low (less than 25%), especially not to shake, it is useless ... We must admit that all living things have a use (not always for man, but there is not only him on earth!) ... As long as the "damage" (from a human point of view) are limited, rejoice!

[Did67]

Yes, this is a question I asked myself during this year. What was it going to do if the hay was not compressed? Maybe weeds tended to pass a little more through but where I had put a real good layer, no.

Even loose hay ends up, under the rains, by settling down enough to play its role of not letting the light pass. Simply, in this case, by putting it on, it is not necessary to be satisfied with a very "ventilated" layer of 20 cm, which compacted, will only make 8!

On the other hand, compressed hay, if it has started to mold, can form a kind of felt that plants cannot pass through (for example onions, garlic) ...

[jardama]

In fact these uncompressed boots, I put them on the ground without spreading them out too much because it took too long, so it made a good layer, maybe more than 20 cm. The hay not cut, I found it a little difficult that the hay in rectangular bundles, medium density, that we take not plates, which separates better. But it was very practical, this farmer who came with his tractor and his trailer and who suddenly put me down at the entrance to the garden !!

[Did67]

Without making fun ???