Lazy vegetable garden in the Cotentin! Your opinion is required.

Agriculture and soil. Pollution control, soil remediation, humus and new agricultural techniques.
Bobinsana
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Lazy vegetable garden in the Cotentin! Your opinion is required.




by Bobinsana » 08/09/21, 19:56

Hello all,

My name is Gilles, and after having bought and read the book "Le potager du laesseux", I plan to start a vegetable garden on a plot of approximately 200 m2.
I think I understood a lot of things, but I still have a lot of practical questions, and your advice would be really useful to me!
1) This plot is today covered with grass. I think I understood that the 1st phase would be to feed the earth by covering it with a layer of at least 20 cm of hay. And I think I understood that the right time to lay the hay would be November.

Did I understand correctly or not?

2) I think I understood that it would be necessary to let this layer nourish the soil for about 6 months to nourish the soil well.
Am I good or not?

3) Once this phase is completed, it will be a question of planting. Do I have to put in hay at this time?
What should I do with the “initial” hay that fed the land? Should I remove it? Leave it ?
(I ask this question because I find it hard to imagine that one superimposes successive layers of hay without gradually removing them)?

4) Similar question after having carried out the first cultures: should one remove the hay which nourished the ground, and replace it?

5) Final question: in the end, in a “normal” year, how many times should we (re) put hay on the ground? (This in order to calculate the total amount of hay I need to find each year).

Thank you for your help. My questions are probably obvious, I apologize.

Gilles
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Doris
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Re: Lazy vegetable garden in the Cotentin! Your opinion is required.




by Doris » 08/09/21, 20:53

Bobinsana wrote:5) Final question: in the end, in a “normal” year, how many times should we (re) put hay on the ground? (This in order to calculate the total amount of hay I need to find each year).

Thank you for your help. My questions are probably obvious, I apologize.

Gilles

Hi to you, I will answer you very quickly and just on your last point, not too much time, I will come back later, but there, I have to: my husband was born in the Cotentin, so it's a crush. For the frequency of putting the hay: you have to see that on a case-by-case basis, I have a very sandy soil and a very mild climate, so it mineralizes and "disappears" in me very quickly. The thick layer, which I put in me from May, which was already an addition, has almost disappeared today. I will soon be using it again, and take advantage of the fall, to add other organic matter with a higher carbon content (crushed material, pine needles, etc.) and more durable, alternating with the hay. In fact, after a year of experience you will already see more clearly.
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Re: Lazy vegetable garden in the Cotentin! Your opinion is required.




by Rajqawee » 09/09/21, 10:04

Welcome Gilles!

1) This plot is today covered with grass. I think I understood that the 1st phase would be to feed the earth by covering it with a layer of at least 20 cm of hay. And I think I understood that the right time to lay the hay would be November.

You can pose almost anytime you want, the best time being in the fall. 20cm is a good base.

2) I think I understood that it would be necessary to let this layer nourish the soil for about 6 months to nourish the soil well.
It doesn't really matter, you can cultivate directly in it. But over time yes, the hay degrades and nourishes your soil, in addition to fulfilling other functions.

3) Once this phase is completed, it will be a question of planting. Do I have to put in hay at this time?
What should I do with the “initial” hay that fed the land? Should I remove it? Leave it ?
(I ask this question because I find it hard to imagine that one superimposes successive layers of hay without gradually removing them)?
If so, the goal is to leave the hay! You'll see, it just goes away. In fact the hay will always stay on the surface, but there is no problem to plant in it: either they are plants, and you make a small hole to plant, then you put it around, or you make furrows to sow . The goal is precisely that the ground is always covered by something to promote biological activity and manage grass cover.

4) Similar question after having carried out the first cultures: should one remove the hay which nourished the ground, and replace it?
No !

5) Final question: in the end, in a “normal” year, how many times should we (re) put hay on the ground? (This in order to calculate the total amount of hay I need to find each year).

It depends on your weather. When it is too cold, the biological activity stops and therefore the hay lasts longer. When it's too dry, the same. In the Cotentin, your hay will therefore probably deteriorate relatively quickly, say between 4 and 6 months for 20cm? It's suspicious.
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Re: Lazy vegetable garden in the Cotentin! Your opinion is required.




by Bobinsana » 10/09/21, 11:23

Thank you for your answers, it's really nice.

This triggers 3 more questions:

1) Regarding your hay supply: do you buy as and when needed? If so, how easily do you find hay even when the peak season has passed?
If not, are you buying up-front hay stock that covers a longer period? And how do you store it?

2) I saw the answer to my question about the 6 months of preparation which would not be necessary. But I have the impression of not having insisted enough on the hardness of the ground which does not (a priori) seem very fertile. Preparation with hay for a longer or shorter time is not necessary?

3) The parcel is bordered by trees and hedges. Is there a minimum distance between the plantations and the surrounding hedges?

Thank you again for your help, it's super nice.
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Re: Lazy vegetable garden in the Cotentin! Your opinion is required.




by Rajqawee » 10/09/21, 11:51

No problem, it's nice.

1) Regarding your hay supply: do you buy as and when needed? If so, how easily do you find hay even when the peak season has passed?
If not, are you buying up-front hay stock that covers a longer period? And how do you store it?
There, we enter into the personal specifications! Some buy as they go, some produce it in part themselves, some use regrowth (second end-of-season fodder), some do not ... store, it takes up space quite quickly. I will advise, especially at the beginning, not to store and to do as you go. Moreover, it can be useful to design your surfaces according to the coverage that can be provided, rather than looking for the coverage according to the pre-chosen surfaces ....

2) I saw the answer to my question about the 6 months of preparation which would not be necessary. But I have the impression of not having insisted enough on the hardness of the ground which does not (a priori) seem very fertile. Preparation with hay for a longer or shorter time is not necessary?
Okay, the hardness of the earth has nothing to do with its fertility. Any soil exposed to beating will be hard. After a few weeks under cover, a difference will already be visible in terms of "malleability". After several months, and a little rain, it's soft! A soil test would say more for fertility, but looking at what is already growing there gives good information. Meadows, wasteland, forests, they grow by themselves! There is therefore nothing to prevent you from doing tests as you go, especially with crops that are not very greedy (at the moment for example leeks ...)

3) The parcel is bordered by trees and hedges. Is there a minimum distance between the plantations and the surrounding hedges?
Yes .... and no, it depends on the plantations. Some plantations will like partial shade, others won't. In general, however, it is quite easy by observing the fields (cereals, oilseeds ...) to see that closer to the trees, it grows less well. It is undoubtedly an accumulation of factor "sun / water". Around the hedges and trees, you can plant small red fruits (strawberries, raspberries, currants, etc.) which like this shady environment. Some squash can also find a saving shade there during the summer. Once again: to test!

I complete by saying that if the plot is bordered by trees and hedges, it is undoubtedly a bit of a meadow or in any case not a bare land. In this case, no problem to plant plants, and they will grow!
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by Doris » 10/09/21, 12:58

Bobinsana wrote:Thank you for your answers, it's really nice.

This triggers 3 more questions:

1) Regarding your hay supply: do you buy as and when needed? If so, how easily do you find hay even when the peak season has passed?
If not, are you buying up-front hay stock that covers a longer period? And how do you store it?


Personally, I manage it as best I can, generally I buy when I need it. But a year and a half ago, I was able to do a good job with hay that was too old for the animals, and besides, the guy was stopping his activity, he provided me a lot more than I asked for , for the same price. So I have two years of hay in front of me. Otherwise, since I garden this way and having a large lot with a lot of organic matter resources, I see organic matter everywhere in my house, so there is a part of personal production.
For the fertility or hardness of your soil and the preparation time: I think you see this in a much more progressive and long-term way. You will have some visible results in a few months, but that keeps changing long afterwards. For me this is the second summer in hay cultivation, and there are still things that are evolving.
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Re: Lazy vegetable garden in the Cotentin! Your opinion is required.




by Doris » 18/09/21, 14:11

Bobinsana wrote:3) The parcel is bordered by trees and hedges. Is there a minimum distance between the plantations and the surrounding hedges?

Thank you again for your help, it's super nice.

It depends a lot on the shade it can bring you, but also on the size of your plantations around the vegetable garden. A few meters from a large tree for example with a well-established root system, our annual plants have little chance, the tree dominates. And when it comes to light, this photo speaks for itself:
IMG_20210918_135151_1.jpg

It's a line of Tarbais beans, on the right there is a large oak tree, which has grown enormously since they cut the pines behind. On the left the beans are in full sun from 11 a.m. on the right, it is more around 14 p.m., so on the left they are 2,50m, and at the other end 1,20m
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