Sloth's vegetable garden: should the stones be removed?

Agriculture and soil. Pollution control, soil remediation, humus and new agricultural techniques.
NicolasLB
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Sloth's vegetable garden: should the stones be removed?




View NicolasLB » 14/02/22, 09:48

Hello everybody

New to Tarn, I am embarking on the vegetable gardening adventure this year and after having been totally convinced by Didier's arguments in his 2 books, I absolutely did not envisage any tillage but ....
... but looking more closely at my land, I noticed that there were quite a few stones, some of which were quite large (15-20cm) and here are my new convictions upset.
I therefore plan to remove the largest stones (using a pitchfork or a pickaxe or other?) then to mulch, finally phener, immediately afterwards so as not to leave the ground bare and of course never to work again floor.
I specify that I have already recovered 3 bales of hay (for approximately 150m² of vegetable garden useful in the long term) and that my soil is loamy-sandy.

What do you think?

Thank you in advance and good day !

Nicolas
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Rajqawee
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Re: Lazy vegetable garden: do we have to remove the stones?




View Rajqawee » 14/02/22, 10:00

NicolasLB wrote:Hello everybody

New to Tarn, I am embarking on the vegetable gardening adventure this year and after having been totally convinced by Didier's arguments in his 2 books, I absolutely did not envisage any tillage but ....
... but looking more closely at my land, I noticed that there were quite a few stones, some of which were quite large (15-20cm) and here are my new convictions upset.
I therefore plan to remove the largest stones (using a pitchfork or a pickaxe or other?) then to mulch, finally phener, immediately afterwards so as not to leave the ground bare and of course never to work again floor.
I specify that I have already recovered 3 bales of hay (for approximately 150m² of vegetable garden useful in the long term) and that my soil is loamy-sandy.

What do you think?

Thank you in advance and good day !

Nicolas


A land without stones does not exist! You can look in the fields around your home after plowing, and you will see that the farmers don't care a lot about the presence or not of the gadins!

You have to think according to the size of the pebbles and what you are planting there. For root vegetables (typically carrots), it is certain that having "fine" soil makes it possible to avoid carrots that are too short or forked. For the rest, it is not particularly decisive unless you were planting directly above a large cinder block.
Rather than making yourself sweat methodically removing the entire surface, you'll see when you plant/replant: if you come across a pebble, you remove it at that moment and put it... well somewhere or it suits you!
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Re: Lazy vegetable garden: do we have to remove the stones?




View pi-r » 14/02/22, 10:05

hello "neighbor",

personally the stones from the size of a fist I remove if they are in the first 20-30 cm. below this size I leave because it does not really bother me.
I was even able to recover a small area on what was a "gravel path". in 2 years the gravel that I had not been able to completely remove disappeared in the ground...
But that's just my opinion...
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NicolasLB
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Re: Lazy vegetable garden: do we have to remove the stones?




View NicolasLB » 14/02/22, 13:46

Thank you for your answers.
I have indeed planned a significant quantity of root vegetables, so I could possibly pay particular attention to the boards that will accommodate them.

pi-r wrote:hello "neighbor",

personally the stones from the size of a fist I remove if they are in the first 20-30 cm. below this size I leave because it does not really bother me.
I was even able to recover a small area on what was a "gravel path". in 2 years the gravel that I had not been able to completely remove disappeared in the ground...
But that's just my opinion...

On the method, how do you remove the large stones from 20-30 cm without turning everything over?
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Re: Lazy vegetable garden: do we have to remove the stones?




View pi-r » 14/02/22, 17:46

NicolasLB wrote:On the method, how do you remove the large stones from 20-30 cm without turning everything over?

no miracle... you have to go there with the spade fork or a manure hook! but I don't "turn over" the earth I only "lift" ..it's only once....!

Don't worry, your soil will survive this non-PP stamped treatment, especially if you feed it properly afterwards and don't disturb it too much. the living always takes over if you don't want to keep it "clean" all the time!
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Re: Lazy vegetable garden: do we have to remove the stones?




View sicetaitsimple » 14/02/22, 18:36

NicolasLB wrote:What do you think?


Actually, I'm not sure I fully understand the question.
Is your "doubt" due to the fact that removing stones is still a big job, not at all lazy, and that you would prefer to avoid it?
Or is your doubt due to the fact that you are going to stir up your soil a little, thus "disturbing" a certain balance?

If it were me, I wouldn't hesitate, prior stoning (of the large stones you are talking about) and don't worry, the ground will quickly return to the right path even if it has been a little disturbed. It will still be much more pleasant for the following years.
Especially since you tell us you have planned a lot of root vegetables, you're not going to harvest them without disturbing your soil!
However, you must not fall into the opposite excess of someone who turns over his soil with a spade 2 or 3 times a year, refusing by "dogma" to sometimes do a little shallow digging or scraping where you think that it is necessary, then repaillant afterwards.
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NicolasLB
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Re: Lazy vegetable garden: do we have to remove the stones?




View NicolasLB » 14/02/22, 19:17

sicetaitsimple wrote:
NicolasLB wrote:What do you think?


Actually, I'm not sure I fully understand the question.
Is your "doubt" due to the fact that removing stones is still a big job, not at all lazy, and that you would prefer to avoid it?
Or is your doubt due to the fact that you are going to stir up your soil a little, thus "disturbing" a certain balance?


Both at the same time: I wonder about the interest of doing it in relation to the time and energy that it will require of me. I'm perfectly capable of it physically but if it doesn't bring much, I might as well avoid it and I'll know how to take care of it differently (especially since I have very few tools at the moment and I don't want to clutter with tools that I will never use again). And a fortiori if acting has a negative effect on the ground and its occupants, I prefer to spare them that.

Otherwise yes, I fully agree on the fact of not having a blockage by dogma, I was mainly looking to assess the balance of advantages/disadvantages (in a systemic way, not just my own interest). I'm leaning more towards a rough stone removal without doing it like a savage and then leaving everyone alone (except when I harvest my tubers...)
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Re: Lazy vegetable garden: do we have to remove the stones?




View Rajqawee » 15/02/22, 09:32

NicolasLB wrote:
sicetaitsimple wrote:
NicolasLB wrote:What do you think?


Actually, I'm not sure I fully understand the question.
Is your "doubt" due to the fact that removing stones is still a big job, not at all lazy, and that you would prefer to avoid it?
Or is your doubt due to the fact that you are going to stir up your soil a little, thus "disturbing" a certain balance?


Both at the same time: I wonder about the interest of doing it in relation to the time and energy that it will require of me. I'm perfectly capable of it physically but if it doesn't bring much, I might as well avoid it and I'll know how to take care of it differently (especially since I have very few tools at the moment and I don't want to clutter with tools that I will never use again). And a fortiori if acting has a negative effect on the ground and its occupants, I prefer to spare them that.

Otherwise yes, I fully agree on the fact of not having a blockage by dogma, I was mainly looking to assess the balance of advantages/disadvantages (in a systemic way, not just my own interest). I'm leaning more towards a rough stone removal without doing it like a savage and then leaving everyone alone (except when I harvest my tubers...)


We will assume that you have, as in any "natural" soil, pebbles, but not more than that. Stone removal is therefore, apart from the few "mastodons", useless, except for root vegetables which can be hindered.

My personal solution would be:
- the non-rooted beds, I cultivate like that. When I come across a large pebble, I put it aside (or on the edge of the board. It's pretty).

- the root boards, I take a tool (which I already have if possible! A spade, a pitchfork, something that stings what :D) and I push it in every 10cm.
It allows you to already check how many stones there really are. As much, you do not meet so many and you have just avoided a tedious operation. Otherwise, you get off.
Because obviously, you have no surface problem: you are not constrained. If every 15cm you have a carrot that grows badly, it is not very important since you can sow on 10 linear meters anyway!

The last option, if you have never tried it and want to make up your mind, is to make a big lasagna mound to grow root vegetables. It can be less tedious if you have the resources on hand.
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NicolasLB
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Re: Lazy vegetable garden: do we have to remove the stones?




View NicolasLB » 15/02/22, 16:57

Rajqawee wrote:
NicolasLB wrote:
sicetaitsimple wrote:
Actually, I'm not sure I fully understand the question.
Is your "doubt" due to the fact that removing stones is still a big job, not at all lazy, and that you would prefer to avoid it?
Or is your doubt due to the fact that you are going to stir up your soil a little, thus "disturbing" a certain balance?


Both at the same time: I wonder about the interest of doing it in relation to the time and energy that it will require of me. I'm perfectly capable of it physically but if it doesn't bring much, I might as well avoid it and I'll know how to take care of it differently (especially since I have very few tools at the moment and I don't want to clutter with tools that I will never use again). And a fortiori if acting has a negative effect on the ground and its occupants, I prefer to spare them that.

Otherwise yes, I fully agree on the fact of not having a blockage by dogma, I was mainly looking to assess the balance of advantages/disadvantages (in a systemic way, not just my own interest). I'm leaning more towards a rough stone removal without doing it like a savage and then leaving everyone alone (except when I harvest my tubers...)


We will assume that you have, as in any "natural" soil, pebbles, but not more than that. Stone removal is therefore, apart from the few "mastodons", useless, except for root vegetables which can be hindered.

My personal solution would be:
- the non-rooted beds, I cultivate like that. When I come across a large pebble, I put it aside (or on the edge of the board. It's pretty).

- the root boards, I take a tool (which I already have if possible! A spade, a pitchfork, something that stings what :D) and I push it in every 10cm.
It allows you to already check how many stones there really are. As much, you do not meet so many and you have just avoided a tedious operation. Otherwise, you get off.
Because obviously, you have no surface problem: you are not constrained. If every 15cm you have a carrot that grows badly, it is not very important since you can sow on 10 linear meters anyway!

The last option, if you have never tried it and want to make up your mind, is to make a big lasagna mound to grow root vegetables. It can be less tedious if you have the resources on hand.


The lasagna method does not tempt me because of its ephemeral side while I seek as much as possible to create a virtuous cycle. Obviously, I am well aware that this will remain an anthropized system that is therefore unnatural and which will require interventions on my part, but I hope for the minimum possible.

The more I think about it, the more I tell myself that I will try different methods on several plots:
- decompacting with a grelinette;
- rough stone removal;
- Nothing at all.
Cover the whole thing in hay and see what happens. I'm lucky not to need a short-term return, so the right to make mistakes, even if I aim to be almost self-sufficient in fruit and vegetables within 5-10 years. It is therefore a great testing ground to see what is suitable for my terrain!

If you have other ideas for methods to experiment with, I'm all ears!
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Re: Lazy vegetable garden: do we have to remove the stones?




View sicetaitsimple » 15/02/22, 22:36

NicolasLB wrote:The more I think about it, the more I tell myself that I will try different methods on several plots:
- decompacting with a grelinette;
- rough stone removal;
- Nothing at all.
Cover the whole thing in hay and see what happens.


Yes, it is a solution, try and see, especially since it does not presume the future. You may find it useful later, on beautiful winter days, to stone one or two beds without vegetables and thus gradually improve your vegetable garden while doing "free" physical exercise!
A few reservations about the grelinette: it's a very wide tool, so if your soil is very stony you risk "blocking" it often, a classic spade fork, narrower, would seem more suitable to me. But must try. It's up to you. Good luck!

PS: I used the term "destoner" before, but the correct term is "destoner".
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