Agriculture: problems and pollution, new technologies and solutionsWhat is GMO?

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Moindreffor
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Re: what is GMO?

Unread Messageby Moindreffor » 10/01/19, 20:42

Janic wrote:
india-the-lab-world-of-drugs-nonconforming
https://www.lemonde.fr/economie/article ... _3234.html

India is no more free of drug problems, including many imitations, than other countries. But the biggest scandals involve compliant drugs from major pharmaceutical companies such as vioxx and distilbene, plus the exorbitant price.
The patent of its anticancer Nexavar runs until 2020. India, judging its price "exorbitant", requires it to provide a "compulsory license" to the generic Natco Pharma. An initiative tolerated by a WTO agreement for public health goals. The copy of the drug of the European should be sold 175 dollars the monthly dose, a decrease of 97% of the original price[*]. Bayer receives in return a royalty of 6% of sales. No way, he replied. His complaint was rejected in September by the Indian Intellectual Property Appeal Board.
[*] 5833 dollars of origin

NEXAVAR 200 mg, film-coated tablet, 4 28 blister pack
Therapeutic Classes: Oncology and Hematology
Antineoplastics> Sorafenib
Price including VAT: 2,998,15 €
SS refund rate: 100%

Dosage
The recommended dose of Nexavar in adults is 400 mg sorafenib (2 200 tablets mg) twice daily (ie a total daily dose of 800 mg).
Treatment should be continued as long as a clinical benefit is observed or until the occurrence of unacceptable toxicity.

so 112: 8 = 14 days is per month 6531.7 euros, only for the drug instead of 196 euros!

you think that's great, but here we are close to legal industrial espionage, as with technology transfer agreements with China, so in these countries researchers are no longer working on these drugs or advanced technologies but in other countries domains and get ahead of the Europeans, we transferred the TGV techno with China and now they sell us TVG at low prices, TGV that we will not manufacture anymore ... what better way to eliminate the competition ...
so in a short time these countries will be leading and ended the price decline,

it's like giving seeds to your neighbor hoping that he will spin you vegetables, or the dealer's tactics, cheap to bait to make dependent and after when you depend it's the price,

it will be naïve to believe that India practices this kind of commercial tactics for public health
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Re: what is GMO?

Unread Messageby Moindreffor » 10/01/19, 21:14

moreover, if our laboratories can no longer finance their research, we will be totally dependent on other countries
I know you think we can cure everything with 5 fruits and vegetables not days, I would like to believe too, I have long believed in Santa Claus, the little mouse, Easter bells, in solidarity, in good faith, but I came back

you are in good health, you can believe that it's because of your lifestyle, but I've seen good living, smoking old bones, so I think we're more or less lucky at the base, and so for the less fortunate ben I hope we will still have the opportunity to benefit from research in our European countries,

we run millions to a guy of 20 years to hit a ball, just because he naturally has talent and we refuse to a guy from 40 who has studied for a long time and who has been searching for a long time to find, to reap the fruit of his work ...

it seems that it is because we can identify with the guy of 20 years, succeed without working much, without studying, on the other hand we easily criticize the graduates their intellectual superiority, well yes when we do the mass education we do not make quality, it's like growing our vegetables, we always come back to the problem of the culture of ignorance to establish a power, we must then give the dream
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Re: what is GMO?

Unread Messageby Exnihiloest » 10/01/19, 21:22

Janic wrote:another one who believes in Santa Claus! It's been a long time since labs discover anything new.


It's wrong.
But you have the right to have your creeds and to affirm anything.
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Re: what is GMO?

Unread Messageby Janic » 11/01/19, 09:23

moreover, if our laboratories can no longer finance their research, we will be totally dependent on other countries
Labs invest more money in marketing than in research; more, as the great Charles still said » we do not need researchers, but finders And these are rare.
But with 1000 billion global turnover and a profit NET, some of 25% who goes into the pockets of shareholders, we do not cry miserable fact that research is the poor relation of the pharmaceutical or agri-food chemical industry.
I know you think we can cure everything with 5 fruits and vegetables not days,
I do not think it comes from the government, not from me.
It's not that easy! The hit of 5 fruits and vegetables a day comes from the recognition that some diseases, including cancer, are largely due to free radicals and that these free radicals are being combated by these antioxidants found mainly in FRESH fruits and vegetables. This therefore has a reducing effect of the effects of these free radicals and therefore with a certain influence on these cancers.
But fortunately, this is only informative, not mandatory, because everyone is still free (theoretically) of his body.
I would also like to believe it,
It's not about loving or not. I guess you're not a love treatment of it, but because you're afraid to die, which is not the same thing and so you believe it, here veux to believe it desperately.
Now to know if this or that thing (not only food) has any effectiveness on the state of health, it is not speeches that will advance the situation but putting them into practice.
I have long believed in Santa Claus, little mice, Easter bells, in solidarity, in good faith, but I came back
Not really since you believe in Santa Claus of the sacrosanct miraculous conventional medicine.
Is another medicine better or worse? It's often only when the first leaves no hope that people desperate turn to "charlatans" (sic) parallel medicine often too late elsewhere! [*] [*] A non-limiting example (because they are numerous) taken from my limited edition book, confidential and full of anecdotes, not the theory.
Here is a two-and-a-half story.
Her little girl had leukemia. After many treatments, she was returned to them to spend her last moments in her family; that is to say the seriousness of his condition. Like all parents, they did not resolve to accept the inevitable and beat the drum to avoid this fatal outcome. They were given the name of a naturopath (you know the charlatans!) Who, given the state of the child, did not promise a result, but only to do his best. And against all odds, the child's health slowly improved. But the story does not end there. Social services came to visit the family to inquire about the child's health (or to offer their condolences?). Noting the improvement in her condition, they wanted to start treatment again and the parents had to leave their child to those who had previously got rid of it. Reprocessing, relapse, return to the family home. Back to the naturopath who reiterates his reservations: Re-improvement of the state of the child. The story could have stopped there, but there are cups to be drunk to the dregs. Again revisits social services that note the improvement of the child resumed their work, where they had interrupted, despite the protests of parents. The child could not stand this third aggression and died.

And I have others in reserve.
Another ?! Everyone has heard of Mességué
https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maurice_M ... A9gu%C3%A9
What W does not say is that he was the subject of several lawsuits by the College of Physicians for the illegal practice of medicine. As he was treating celebrities around the world, he had hundreds of patients come back to health and he was amused by telling his accusers that at each trial, his celebrity increased and his clientele also and he thanked them for doing so. Clearly, this is not a label that is worth the therapy, but its effectiveness that it comes from a university graduate doctor or a charlatan who heals and heals, HE, what these learned doctors could not do.
you're in good health, you can believe that it's because of your lifestyle, but I've seen good living smokers make old bones, so I think we're more or less lucky at the base, and so for the less fortunate ben I hope we'll still have the opportunity to benefit research in our European countries,
Ah, the boat example! life depends on a multitude of individual, collective, environmental and genetic factors that act sometimes for the benefit of it (health) sometimes to the detriment of it (the disease). If it were so simple, there would have been no patients since the dawn of humanity. So I do not believe, I check every day by comparison with people of my age (already advanced) and other younger ones.
my work colleagues, throughout my professional career, called me doctor J, and asked for various tips to improve their lingering problems that their doctors were not able to cure and generally, with little in fact, this wavering health improved to their surprise (and this has nothing to do with the illegal practice of medicine since no remedy is recommended, but only behaviors that common sense should have made them adopt for a long time)
But to believe, naively, that it is only a question of turning one's thumbs until one finds the miracle cure that will allow the smoker to continue smoking, the drinker to drink, the puffer to eat with impunity, c is illusory and generally sanctioned by illness, suffering and finally death. It is not a question of luck, nor of bad luck, but of taking control of one's own life, and even more of that of subsequent generations.

we run millions to a guy of 20 years to hit a ball, just because he naturally has talent and we refuse to a guy from 40 who has studied for a long time and who has been searching for a long time to find, to reap the fruit of his work ...

When he finds something! It is not the type who mixes ingredients in a vial that returns the immense profits of the chemical industry, but shareholders who phagocyte, precisely, a better possible reward for a researcher.

it seems that it is because we can identify with the guy of 20 years, succeed without working much, without studying, on the other hand we easily criticize the graduates their intellectual superiority, well yes when we do the mass education we do not do quality, it's like growing our vegetables, we always come back to the problem of the culture of ignorance to establish a power, we must give a dream.

Excellent final example when we do mass agricultural culture, we do not make quality " and so " we always come back to the problem of culture of ignorance to establish poweryou have to give a dream. And suicides among conventional farmers.
But, you have a particular vision of success that would only be in the money, there are much more important things in life and given your situation I guess it allows you to reconsider these "values". Because even millionaires or billionaires die like all the others and often of these diseases which do not make of financial racism, but of which they would like to be exempted with all the money that they have that allows them to reach the greatest specialists of the world and the most sophisticated therapies, for the same result: a small oak box.

[*] In VGL these 5 fruits and vegetables are the basis of their diet and therefore we meet very rarely or not at all in some schools of thought and action, these pathologies.
[*] [*] Again, there is an ethical problem. Should a "charlatan" take charge of an individual close to death to try to avoid this fatal outcome, knowing that if the individual dies, it is his charlatanism that will be condemned (by relatives and the order doctors, too happy to finally find A victim of these alternative medicines) and if he gets out of it, it will be invoked that it is the previous treatment which has acted with delay.
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Re: what is GMO?

Unread Messageby Moindreffor » 11/01/19, 13:16

Janic wrote:Her little girl had leukemia. After many treatments, she was returned to them to spend her last moments in her family; that is to say the seriousness of his condition. Like all parents, they did not resolve to accept the inevitable and beat the drum to avoid this fatal outcome. They were given the name of a naturopath (you know the charlatans!) Who, given the state of the child, did not promise a result, but only to do his best. And against all odds, the child's health slowly improved. But the story does not end there. Social services came to visit the family to inquire about the child's health (or to offer their condolences?). Noting the improvement in her condition, they wanted to start treatment again and the parents had to leave their child to those who had previously got rid of it. Reprocessing, relapse, return to the family home. Back to the naturopath who reiterates his reservations: Re-improvement of the state of the child. The story could have stopped there, but there are cups to be drunk to the dregs. Again revisits social services that note the improvement of the child resumed their works, where they had interrupted, despite the protests of parents. The child could not stand this third aggression and died of it. [/ I]
And I have others in reserve.

always some examples facing millions of patients, as I say it is based on some coincident observations to make it a law
in France we can not impose a treatment, social services can only intervene by court order, so if that had been the case the media would have made a great saga judico-media
I consulted such a doctor in a big city, he sold me the same story, I went there on the advice of a doctor (not mine), the speech of this great specialist in your field ( to cure by the food), made me afraid and I did not give any continuation (he wanted to help me but especially by not stopping my current treatment, but in me selling a rather expensive method) the story does not stop there; the doctor's wife who sent me there has been diagnosed with cancer, has followed the nutritional advice and his wife has died of cancer, so we find the counter example of your story very easily and that I I lived it myself ...
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Re: what is GMO?

Unread Messageby Moindreffor » 11/01/19, 13:24

Janic wrote: Excellent final example when we do mass education, we do not make quality " and so " we always come back to the problem of culture of ignorance to establish poweryou have to give a dream. » and suicides among conventional farmers.

excuse me I wrote education so nothing to do with farmers : Mrgreen: but you have gone over it, you are even ready to modify our texts to be able to contradict us better, if we do not skirt the bad faith, even the misinformation ...

and I compared with the growing of vegetables in mass which does not give either of the good quality (I hope that there you will not contradict me)

when we do not train anymore (learning of knowledge) but when we give diplomas we do mass education, so of low quality, so a level of ignorance that goes up and therefore the door open to beliefs, "as soon as a dictator takes power he burns books "or impose his own
Last edited by Moindreffor the 11 / 01 / 19, 13: 40, 2 edited once.
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Re: what is GMO?

Unread Messageby Moindreffor » 11/01/19, 13:38

Janic wrote: It's not about loving or not. I guess you're not a love treatment of it, but because you're afraid to die, which is not the same thing and so you believe it, here veux to believe it desperately.

this is where you are wrong again, I do not believe in my treatment, because unlike you my scientific background allows me to understand and analyze objectively its action and its effectiveness, I am an actor in my therapy, and the way I treat myself has allowed other patients with the same disease to benefit from the therapeutic advances that we have put in place with my doctor

you always want to put belief where there is absolutely no need, you want to be a believer it's your choice, do not impose it on us ...

belief is rooted in ignorance and is always accompanied by fear
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Re: what is GMO?

Unread Messageby Janic » 11/01/19, 14:28

always some examples in front of millions of patients, as I say it is based on some coincident observations to make it a law
Do you think you'll be one of those few exceptional examples? Is your case a coincidence if you are better, see less harm than before and can you compare it to millions of patients?

But the question is not there. Suppose you are the parent of this little girl, [*] not in the abstraction of a forum : What do you do ?
a) It's the law of nature, the natural selection, and you have to do with it.
b) I love my daughter too much to abandon her to her fate and better be anything rather than let her die without doing anything.
c) It's okay now that millions of people will get by
d) Millions I do not care, the life of my child is more important than any abstract argument (and false more)!
e) My child has improved outside the conventional system and is getting worse in this conventional system, so the conventional system is good
I consulted such a doctor in a big city, he sold me the same story, I went there on the advice of a doctor (not mine), the speech of this great specialist in your field ( heal with food), scared me
Every day you eat cabbages, carrots, hake like the rest of the population? Is it called healing by diet? No, it's called feeding, nothing more. But as soon as we touch this sacred moment of everyday life, it causes a phenomenon of rejection that is noticeable in regimes, justified or not. Do not touch my friend! But when people really get hurt in their skin (eg obesity, diabetes) and that their life and survival depend on itall of a sudden they change their minds (fear is powerful to manipulate people, that's why you're always scared)
and I did not give any follow up (he wanted to help me but especially by not stopping my current treatment, but in me ... vune rather expensive method)
A change of food can not and must not be expensive, ON the contrary, so you did well not to follow this path there.
The story does not end there; the doctor's wife who sent me there was diagnosed with cancer, followed the nutrition advice and his wife died of cancer,
A saying says that "no one is a prophet in his country" [*] [*]
No wonder, cancer is multi-cause, we must identify these otherwise it is useless. Miners had silicosis, not their wives or children. Manipulators of asbestos also and even if the diet could play, possibly, a preventive or curative role is not always enough in itself.
If a carpenter spends his time hammering on his fingers and even if he puts bandages, they have little chance of solving his problem, which comes from his clumsiness and not the hammer or nails .
so we find the counter example of your story very easily and that I lived it myself ...
Yes, but these are only exceptional cases, but not a law! (You see it works in every direction.)
So, we must not, indeed, be content with a few scattered cases, we must identify, through different channels, concordant testimony in sufficient quantity to draw if not a law at least sufficient probabilities.
As I quote the few thousand Amish where there is no autism, this is enough to draw lessons between a probable cause (or rather cause precisely absent) and observed effects (no effects noted) compared to the surrounding society (as is done during trials of drugs to market,) confirmed by a New York medical association also gathering thousands of patients where this lack of cause, so did not produce products. effects observed on the rest of the population, ie no vaccines!

[*] Given the fear (understandable) that you have for yourself, it should be so for your children, if you have!

Janic wrote:
It's not about loving or not. I guess you're not a treatment for love of it, but because you're afraid of dying, which is not the same thing and so you believe it, you want to believe it desperately.
that's where you're wrong again, I do not believe in my treatmentbecause unlike you my scientific background allows me to understand and analyze objectively its action and its effectiveness,
so you are a doctor or a biologist?
I am an actor in my therapy, and the way I treat myself has allowed other patients with the same disease to benefit from the therapeutic advances that we have put in place with my doctor
all patients are actors, more or less active in their treatment, this is not extraordinary, even with alternative medicines.
you always want to put belief where there is absolutely no need, you want to be a believer it's your choice, do not impose it on us ...
I do not put anything anywhere! all the toubibs will tell you that a therapy is only effective if you believe in it, if not as much going to play sandbox.
belief is rooted in ignorance and is always accompanied by fear
Hence the need to get out of ignorance patterns and thus conditioning from institutions that self-certify judges and parties at the same time as it is in medicine or agronomy.
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Moindreffor
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Re: what is GMO?

Unread Messageby Moindreffor » 11/01/19, 15:20

Janic wrote:
always some examples in front of millions of patients, as I say it is based on some coincident observations to make it a law
Do you think you'll be one of those few exceptional examples? Is your case a coincidence if you are better, see less harm than before and can you compare it to millions of patients?

No, I am the ordinary person, I react well to the treatment appropriate to my illness, as the treatment and effective, and each time the disease comes back I resume my treatment and it works again, and all those who suffer from the disease same illness as me, react the same and get better, as I told you the way to treat me also helped other patients so that they can have a lighter treatment, less harmful, we have discussed with my doctor and knowing the drugs and their mode of action we decided together to try and the answer was in agreement with our expectations, it worked as expected, nothing exceptional just science
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Re: what is GMO?

Unread Messageby Moindreffor » 11/01/19, 15:36

Janic wrote:
always some examples in front of millions of patients, as I say it is based on some coincident observations to make it a law
Do you think you'll be one of those few exceptional examples? Is your case a coincidence if you are better, see less harm than before and can you compare it to millions of patients?

But the question is not there. Suppose you are the parent of this little girl, [*] not in the abstraction of a forum : What do you do ?
a) It's the law of nature, the natural selection, and you have to do with it.
b) I love my daughter too much to abandon her to her fate and better be anything rather than let her die without doing anything.
c) It's okay now that millions of people will get by
d) Millions I do not care, the life of my child is more important than any abstract argument (and false more)!
e) My child has improved outside the conventional system and is getting worse in this conventional system, so the conventional system is good

I did not suppose, that's my case, I had this choice to make
a) I did not have the choice, in France we save people, so being in the comas they saved my life (in the comas I had a strong belief in the therapy was very strong : Mrgreen: So yes I will have to die but it was not the case
b) better than anything, no it is despair, very bad counselor, you get tricked by any quack
c) yes people cure and others do not, I suffer from an incurable disease so no problem if others are doing better for them
d) each case is unique, so yes do everything for, but I also chose to test something else to help other patients, and it paid off
e) my child has gone better outside the conventional system, natural remissions are known, but the rest of your story is false, no one can impose treatment on a patient, without going through a judgment and no judge will impose a treatment unnecessary, social services do not have this power happily
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