O. De Schutter, world agricultural model is running out!

[Forhorse]

If that helps, with us in Perche (Normandy) the average hay production of a natural peerage is 5 tonnes per hectare.
This is of course an average and an empirical value (this is what farmers see here without keeping precise accounts of production ... but knowing farmers well and their obsession with yield, we can consider the figure as reliable)

[Did67]

OKAY. The order of magnitude seems realistic ...

I use about 3 to 4 kg / m² (a roll of 250 for approximately 75 m² cultivated - I do not count the grassy alleys) or an equivalent of 30 to 40 tonnes / ha ... It would therefore take 6 ha of natural meadow for 1 ha of "lazy man's vegetable garden" ... So it's a little worse than I thought ...

Goods.

Note that a leisure horse consumes about 1 roll per week. So for the equivalent of one horse per year, I can cultivate 3 m², or 500 ares of vegetable patch (35 times what I have and I already have a large vegetable patch for an individual with my 10 m² cultivated, and my 400 to 5 rolls per year, depending on the year). You raise donkeys, I think. Can you confirm that too, the roll / week (order of magnitude) ???

[paysan.bio]

OKAY. The order of magnitude seems realistic ...

I use about 3 to 4 kg / m² (a roll of 250 for approximately 75 m² cultivated - I do not count the grassy alleys) or an equivalent of 30 to 40 tonnes / ha ... It would therefore take 6 ha of natural meadow for 1 ha of "lazy man's vegetable garden" ... So it's a little worse than I thought ...

Goods.

Note that a leisure horse consumes about 1 roll per week. So for the equivalent of one horse per year, I can cultivate 3 m², or 500 ares of vegetable patch (35 times what I have and I already have a large vegetable patch for an individual with my 10 m² cultivated, and my 400 to 5 rolls per year, depending on the year). You raise donkeys, I think. Can you confirm that too, the roll / week (order of magnitude) ???

I have a konik polski ponette and a quarter mare.
the average consumption is one bunch per day, that is 7,5 kg / animal / day. (the rest is brought by park grass).
consumption can go up to 1 bunch in winter, i.e. 15 kg / animal / day
it's not a roll / animal / week

But as I compost the manure to make a part of my compost, I count horse hay in my consumption of hay from the garden.

[izentrop]

Hello,
5 t DM / ha must be the lower limit without fertilization http://www.indre.chambagri.fr/fileadmin ... airies.pdf
and in this case, not to lose fertility you need 30% of legumes http://www.bretagne.synagri.com/ca1/PJ. ... penElement

Can vary from 4 to 14 t DM / ha

yield Prairie MS.png (33.47 KiB) Viewed 2113 times

http://www.fourragesmieux.be/Documents_ ... sation.pdf

[Did67]

Thank you for all this data ... I will archive.

NB: technical documents almost always reason in DM (dry matter); it is therefore necessary to "add" the 15% of water contained in a hay ...

We should define "hay meadow". These are not necessarily "natural meadows" in the sense in which I was speaking: meadows with little or no fertilization ...

The "orders of magnitude" that I have given are confirmed:

- 1 leisure horse consumes the equivalent of a roller per week (or the equivalent of fresh grass in summer): but the reasoning is to say that if 700 people consume as much biomass for their leisure time, I have the "(moral) right" to use my few rolls to produce my vegetables [because of course, the question that it would not be ethical to use hay, which is fodder, for a gardener has been asked]

- 5 to 15 t of hay / ha of meadow: it therefore takes 2 to 6 times the equivalent of the area cultivated in vegetables to produce the necessary hay; I was not next to the plate with my estimate at 3 to 4!

- this therefore represents a sacred "surface extensification", as I had indicated, it seems to me, at the very beginning of our discussions on the "big thread": 100 m² of vegetables, it is in fact 400 m² of monopolized UAA. ; it is the "price" of a production without other inputs; this is why I say myself that it cannot be generalized "as is" ...

[Ahmed]

It is not only the areas devoted to leisure horses, many places are more or less fallow and could provide hay.
This is what I personally plan to use: I have to mow some land each year and I left the product of the cutting on the spot until now, from now on I will recover a maximum, for my garden and for benefit other local phenocultural aspirants.

[Did67]

Yes of course. In small and medium mountains in particular, the areas formerly "cultivated" (exploited as meadows or pastures) and today in fallow land (because less easily mechanized except by using very sophisticated machines like the Swiss do - which are not in the EU and subsidize their agriculture even more) are important. The "forest", not always very well managed then, is progressing. People don't know enough about it. There are always those who fear "deforestation" (which is real in many countries! Internet and "buzz" do the rest).

Then yes. Just as there are rolls of hay which are "forgotten" or which have taken water. As there are late mowing of protected sites for one reason or another: water catchment, endangered species ...

So yes, there are "plenty" of resources ... We will not run out of hay tomorrow ...

But I'm looking for "images" that speak ... We are there in "communication". I use the "notoriety" enjoyed by equines in our country. And whose "usefulness" nobody questions ... Because those who criticize the fact that I use fodder are very often animal fans ... So I use this "shortcut"!

And the debate on the possibility of generalizing this way of doing) all agriculture remains: we do not have, overall, 3 times the UAA currently cultivated (with strong energy and inputs outside the "system").

[Julienmos]

Just as there are rolls of hay which are "forgotten" or which have taken water.

just to illustrate this mess, I allow myself a small photo taken earlier ...
it is only 6 km from my home, there, in a meadow, full of rollers (straw and hay), about a hundred! some still "good" I think, but many others sagging, moldy ... especially hay elsewhere.

[ENERC]

The global agricultural model has mainly emptied the earth of its carbon and its inhabitants.
If you missed this excellent article, it's time to (re) read it: https://reporterre.net/La-crise-agricol ... ise-du-sol


This spring was rather dry in the 77, and what color is the earth ???? Ben light yellow. Very clear. Not good at all

It's weird in my garden it is dark brown, almost black while on the other side of the road it is yellow. Find the mistake.
The agricultural world is cutting the branch on which it sits. When will the farmers finally realize it?

[Did67]

Just as there are rolls of hay which are "forgotten" or which have taken water.

just to illustrate this mess, I allow myself a small photo taken earlier ...
it is only 6 km from my home, there, in a meadow, full of rollers (straw and hay), about a hundred! some still "good" I think, but many others sagging, moldy ... especially hay elsewhere.

Near my house, there is a large meadow, with a few dozen rollers for 2 years ... No doubt: there are possibilities for lazy gardening ...

But the statistics are relentless: there are just over 28 million hectares occupied by agricultural activities, 37% of which are cultivated soils. So roughly 10 million ha.

If we apply "phenoculture", it would take 1 billion 200 million rolls of hay ...

That's just what makes me say that this is not possible in this form, as I practice it in my garden ...

It doesn't mean doing nothing. Nor defend the existing agricultural model, which goes into the wall (for another reason: its dependence on fossil energy). Nor forbid me a development of phenoculture for particular vegetable gardens.