Our participatory garden in Moselle

Agriculture and soil. Pollution control, soil remediation, humus and new agricultural techniques.
User avatar
Did67
Moderator
Moderator
posts: 20362
Registration: 20/01/08, 16:34
Location: Alsace
x 8685

Re: Our Participatory Garden in Moselle




View Did67 » 25/09/19, 12:42

VetusLignum wrote:
A priori, all these plants should die in the first cold of winter.

It is necessary to distinguish the (symbiotic) fixation of nitrogen from the air; what legumes like vetch do; and the sequestration of soil nitrogen (to avoid leaching); what other plants do, including mustard or rye.


Sorry, I had not read more; I reacted to the reading of the first message ...

We are 100% agree. For the question of legumes / non-legumes too!
0 x
emilio57
I understand econologic
I understand econologic
posts: 54
Registration: 18/07/19, 17:45
x 6

Re: Our Participatory Garden in Moselle




View emilio57 » 05/10/19, 22:26

Good evening,

straw and hay have been inundated with rain. These are little boots.
I understand that it's too early for hay, but does not it risk becoming moldy?

should we put it under cover to dry until after winter, or as long as it is already spread?
0 x
Moindreffor
Econologue expert
Econologue expert
posts: 5830
Registration: 27/05/17, 22:20
Location: boundary between North and Aisne
x 957

Re: Our Participatory Garden in Moselle




View Moindreffor » 06/10/19, 11:24

emilio57 wrote:Good evening,

straw and hay have been inundated with rain. These are little boots.
I understand that it's too early for hay, but does not it risk becoming moldy?

should we put it under cover to dry until after winter, or as long as it is already spread?

there is no real date to spread the hay, there are situations
I lack MO and for example fertility, this year I will opt for 2 straw bales in the first layer (because more carbonaceous and woody for the soil structure and possibly nitrate pump) to cover almost the entire garden and 2 bales of hay, right now

thereafter, around February, I will put some hay, 2 balls so that it can get wet with the rains of late winter to plant onions, garlic and shallots

the rest (2 balls) will be put a little before transplanting the summer plants, with double layer for potatoes, so late March early April, later it may not rain enough for me to get hay who will have received enough rain, we had pretty dry spring these 2 last years

this is my plan of attack for the future
1 x
"Those with the biggest ears are not the ones who hear the best"
(of me)
emilio57
I understand econologic
I understand econologic
posts: 54
Registration: 18/07/19, 17:45
x 6

Re: Our Participatory Garden in Moselle




View emilio57 » 06/10/19, 12:44

Moindreffor wrote:
emilio57 wrote:Good evening,

straw and hay have been inundated with rain. These are little boots.
I understand that it's too early for hay, but does not it risk becoming moldy?

should we put it under cover to dry until after winter, or as long as it is already spread?

there is no real date to spread the hay, there are situations
...

this is my plan of attack for the future



Thank you less effort. We will spread according to our new culture plan.
Didier, that rotten hay?
0 x
User avatar
Did67
Moderator
Moderator
posts: 20362
Registration: 20/01/08, 16:34
Location: Alsace
x 8685

Re: Our Participatory Garden in Moselle




View Did67 » 06/10/19, 15:40

Over time, I have come to distinguish two situations:

a) facing a meadow, which I want to decompose and cultivate (sow) from the following spring, I spread the hay in November once the soil is too cold for the bacteria to continue to "nitrify" (make nitrates). .

b) where I have been cultivating for a year or more, the soil covered (with hay) remains warm, in the fall there are leftovers of unused nitrogen; hay certainly protects the soil against the impact of rain but not against leaching and the entrainment of these nitrates ... So I prefer that there are living plants, which will absorb these nitrates: green manure or much more simply, nice "weeds" (not the pain in the ass); I therefore let "green"; I put the hay from the end of January / February. After mowing or brushing what grows low to the ground. I leave. I cover with hay (a little less, since there is already nutrient biomass on site).

With big rolls, hay does not break down too much. Ideally, they should be put on pallets and covered with tarpaulins. It's not done yet.

Small balls are less dense and more sensitive. Water seeps everywhere. They should be sheltered while waiting to use them ...


Yes, the hay "rots". Which is a good thing: it means that it feeds living organisms that "patch up" the soil and build it up. It also means that it is transformed into minerals which will nourish the vegetables.

The "rot" is not a curse, much less a danger: it is a blessing!
1 x
emilio57
I understand econologic
I understand econologic
posts: 54
Registration: 18/07/19, 17:45
x 6

Re: Our Participatory Garden in Moselle




View emilio57 » 02/11/19, 23:32

good evening everyone

voila, it's the end of the season, and the preparation of a new one that we hope will bear fruit!
below the last photos before the winter cover:
Image

Image

Image

Image

and the first plot covered with leaves, hay and straw, mowed grass.

Image

As a reminder, the ground was completely leveled last March.

Around all these covered plots dedicated to culture, we will let the vegetation grow in order to optimize living things, biodiversity and therefore the soil.

Next delivery of manure and straw to prepare the other side.
And many more things to do for our project:
- fed up
- chicken coop
- collective composter with sorting awareness.


See you soon


For Didier: Nice to have met you, but given the success of your conf, I couldn't wait for the long line of people who came to meet you. We will try to come to Alsace.
1 x
emilio57
I understand econologic
I understand econologic
posts: 54
Registration: 18/07/19, 17:45
x 6

Re: Our Participatory Garden in Moselle




View emilio57 » 07/11/19, 15:07

Hello,

Arrival of the sheet, as we are just starting out in the cover, it is quite a debate for the order of the layers.
The defenders of manure above the leaves or straw have won.

Didier, please, you can remind me of an informative slide from your conference, where the organic matter mixture for ground cover was indicated.
Thank you
Attachments
20191106_172112.jpg
20191106_172054.jpg
20191106_172123.jpg
20191106_172115.jpg
0 x
User avatar
Did67
Moderator
Moderator
posts: 20362
Registration: 20/01/08, 16:34
Location: Alsace
x 8685

Re: Our Participatory Garden in Moselle




View Did67 » 07/11/19, 16:28

One very simple thing: decomposed manure, like the one I see, is also a growing medium. No way to control weeds with that!

Unlike hay, straw, dead leaves.

But the dead leaves on the surface, they fly away in the wind. Suaf if you place them on the ground with a net, or with hay on them. Or straw on it.

For the rest, it's a C / N question

- decomposed manure: balanced
- hay: balanced
- dead leaves: a stink too low in nitrogen; it is not a problem in autumn, on already gardened grounds: it can "pump" the nitrates

Attention: you are in sandy soil, if my memory serves me well and already amended; you currently have a nitrification peak; without green manure or weeds growing, it goes straight into the water!
0 x
User avatar
Did67
Moderator
Moderator
posts: 20362
Registration: 20/01/08, 16:34
Location: Alsace
x 8685

Re: Our Participatory Garden in Moselle




View Did67 » 07/11/19, 16:35

And above all, for social peace: everything works! Even bullshit works! So don't fight ...

In sandy soils, the formation of stable humic substances must be your priority: therefore materials with a high isohumic coefficient (k1). Manure, BRF, even a small dose of wood (sawdust, shavings) ... In very sandy soil, the priority may be to favor the installation of stable MOs, which will be a sponge for water and a "fridge "for the nutrients ... At the risk that it struggles a little (yield question) at the beginning ...

And then I think you have to read the book from the end: you are obviously still far too much in the "what to do ..." (paradigm 1). And not enough in "what not to do"? (paradigm 2) ...
2 x
emilio57
I understand econologic
I understand econologic
posts: 54
Registration: 18/07/19, 17:45
x 6

Re: Our Participatory Garden in Moselle




View emilio57 » 07/11/19, 18:16

Did67 wrote:Attention: you are in sandy soil, if my memory serves me well and already amended; you currently have a nitrification peak; without green manure or weeds growing, it goes straight into the water!

Hi Didier.
Soil poor in clay and silt. However there is something more than sand, because it is paradoxically hard, compact, even where we have covered.
I will bring you samples if we drop by one of these four.
0 x

 


  • Similar topics
    Replies
    views
    Last message

Back to "Agriculture: problems and pollution, new techniques and solutions"

Who is online ?

Users browsing this forum : No registered users and 153 guests