Before you start, some questions ...

Agriculture and soil. Pollution control, soil remediation, humus and new agricultural techniques.
Antoche
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Registration: 18/07/17, 21:38

Before you start, some questions ...




by Antoche » 18/07/17, 22:30

Hello, here is my garden and my parents on July 18th. For the climate, we are in the Seine-Saint-Denis department in Ile-de-France. The garden is 3 meters long by 3,50 m approximately. The photos were taken at 12:45 p.m. - 13 p.m. (so that you have an idea about the shade)

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To start phenoculture I would like your advice.
As you can see the garden is surrounded by a type of laurel (inedible) as well as a shrub that I do not know, on the right. In the past for fifteen years the laurels have undergone treatment of products against diseases 2, 3 times, but nothing in recent years.
I intend to respect the 20 cm of coverage. For my cover I thought of doing with what I had available naturally and easily. that is, mowing the lawn for nitrogen and the leaves under my laurel for carbon.

Here are 8 questions I have before I get started:

1) If I understood correctly so that my cover does not decompose too quickly, do I have to wait for the beginning of autumn to deposit it?

2) Can lawn mowing and dead leaves be stored together in special recyclable paper garden bags, under the table, out of the sun? Or will there be a compost effect or some other negative effect? Is it better to wait until the last moment, in September, to mow the lawn?

3) My father used to prune hedges once a year with an electric hedge trimmer to limit the too rapid expansion of laurels. These sheets and these small branches can also be used in the composition of the cover?

Approximately what percentage do you recommend 50% mowing / 50% dead leaves & branching?

4) Should I let the grass clippings + the freshly cut laurel leaves cut dry on my garden table? Or is it better to store them in the bag? Will the nutrient energy in plant nitrogen not evaporate if I let it dry?

5) If I take the dead leaves from under my laurels, will they not suffer the consequences since I remove their litter at the expense of the soil of my future crop?
(But I tell myself 2 things:
- If I feed the soil which is barely a few meters away from the laurels (see even less than 1 meter, if in the design I decide to place them right next to it) the filaments of the mushrooms will not they the job of feeding them?
- And at worst, if my laurels are suffering, and too bad, maybe even better, there will be more dead leaves and more carbon resources if I don't have enough dead leaves for my cover. Especially since we are in a small garden and these laurels are growing every year as trees.

6) Compared to the laurels and the reorganization of this garden, is it a good idea to cut these laurels that have become trees, at least a part, in order to have more space and to reorganize the garden by replacing them with others, for example by fruit shrubs?



7) The garden and the residential area is rather well protected from the wind, however sometimes during strong storms the outdoor chairs overturn, is there not a risk that my 20 cm of ground cover will spread out- also ?

8) What types of crops do you recommend?
To optimize the space of vertical crops could be interesting, right?

Merci à vous
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Ahmed
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Re: before you start, some questions ...




by Ahmed » 18/07/17, 23:35

There are many questions! ...
Given the height of the cherry laurels, it is more a skylight than a garden, not to mention the pumping effect of these hedges ... : roll:

The use of grass clippings can only be envisaged in addition to the addition of hay, since it is too herbaceous to meet the criterion of duration of protection of hay; it can however also be used in mixture with a material too carbonated and poor in nitrogen, like your size of laurel: one more or less compensates for the other ... However the leaves * and branches of laurel degrade quite difficult : what we are looking for is a compromise between a fairly durable cover and an ability to nourish the soil.

* The bay leaves are varnished, which protects them notably.
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Antoche
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Re: before you start, some questions ...




by Antoche » 19/07/17, 01:38

Yeah a skylight like a little forest clearing, but apart from the pumping effect, is that a bad thing? I heard that everything grows better in the shade. I can put a type of crop that is more suited to shade right?

Okay I see, the clippings of grass + dead leaves + laurel branches can be well balanced on the nutritive dimension of the soil however they are not sustainable.

Are the laurel dead leaves considered nitrogenous or carbonaceous?

As for the pumping effect, then surely it is a good idea to cut a large part of the laurel trunks? Especially those on the left and right sides and keep those overlooking the pedestrian street behind.

In addition there will be a lot of stock with the laurels once cut and they can be reused as a carbon source accompanied by another source of nitrogen! Even if it means feeding the soil several times, putting it back often. It will not take me that long to put on layers once in a while and then it will be done with pleasure.

What do you think ?
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Antoche
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Registration: 18/07/17, 21:38

Re: before you start, some questions ...




by Antoche » 19/07/17, 01:46

I have an idea !

A little crazy but good, I cut down 2-4 laurels, I leave them rested flat on the floor of my garden. I leave the soil puffed up my trees : Twisted: then I start again with others (except those overlooking the pedestrian street) while maintaining a thickness of about 20 cm.

(I can also cut them afterwards roughly in order to properly arrange the floor)
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phil53
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Re: before you start, some questions ...




by phil53 » 19/07/17, 08:08

If it is possible, authorized, it suits your sensitivity, I would cut all the laurels and put either wooden panels, or nothing, or a trellis on which you make plants climb. Like a palette with pots that you can hang. Tomatoes on the rising sun along this partition should be enjoyed.
To gain light but also on the surface and no longer have shrubs that pump energy from the ground.
Then grind the laurels, it will make a good thickness
The first few years just planting the semi would be too difficult, I think.
And preferably add hay but also mowing recovered from neighbors, but just sprinkle it so that it does not ferment.
It is a point of view which engages only me.
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olivier75
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Re: before you start, some questions ...




by olivier75 » 19/07/17, 08:47

Come on, one more point of view.
You cut the inner half of the laurels to the trunk, you take the opportunity to reduce the height a little, you plant ivy between each foot, which will line the interior in a few years. In the meantime, you are planting climbing vegetables on the south coast.
Olivier
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Ahmed
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Re: before you start, some questions ...




by Ahmed » 19/07/17, 11:41

You can try strawberries, which appreciate a little shade and as the saying Phil53, a climber (bean?) on the south side, that's all you can hope for in terms of optimization.

As for your idea "a little crazy", you must not leave the branches as they are, but crush them in one way or another ...

The dead leaves of laurels are quite poor, no nitrogen and only carbon, but it eventually assimilates anyway ...

You write:
Okay, I see: the grass clippings + dead leaves + laurel branches can be well balanced on the nutritional dimension of the soil, however they are not sustainable.

It is a not too balanced mixture: on one side, the nitrogenous part (turf) will quickly disappear and on the other, you have the leaves and branches of laurels which are very tough, but not very nutritious ...
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sicetaitsimple
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Re: before you start, some questions ...




by sicetaitsimple » 19/07/17, 19:11

I would not want to appear to be the spoiler of service, but from my point of view it is absolutely necessary to remove the laurels which can be, not only for the light, but also for their roots.

And start (that's it, there I am good for the stake!) By beaking all this well (well, 10m2 is not death) to remove them, by coming back every year at the limit of those who will not have not been deleted. This does not preclude drawing inspiration from the principles of ground cover if you wish.
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Ahmed
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Re: before you start, some questions ...




by Ahmed » 19/07/17, 19:28

I agree with you: I was hesitant to talk about it, but the roots will pump up a maximum of water and nutrients and pull the chestnuts out of the fire if there is an improvement in fertility ...
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sicetaitsimple
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Re: before you start, some questions ...




by sicetaitsimple » 19/07/17, 19:35

Ahmed wrote:I agree with you: I was hesitant to talk about it, but the roots will pump up a maximum of water and nutrients and pull the chestnuts out of the fire if there is an improvement in fertility ...


There will be two of us at the stake!

More seriously, I think that in a case like that of Antoche must say things as they are. There is necessarily a serious prior tillage, otherwise it is indeed the laurels that will feast.
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