Didier and the Sloth Garden on C8 (It's only TV)

Agriculture and soil. Pollution control, soil remediation, humus and new agricultural techniques.
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Re: Didier and the Potager du Sloth on C8 (It's only TV)




by Moindreffor » 08/06/19, 08:39

Did67 wrote:My answer may not have been good for sales - but that's what I think. And what I said is in line with what I think. And not what I felt I had to say to boost my sales!

I found your answer very intelligent on the contrary, for Parisians we are the rednecks of the countryside, and with their vegetable patch on the balcony they would also like to give us gardening lessons, you did well to put them in their place in this way very well found

there is a little tired of having to be what we would like the others to be, it reminds me of a song playing on the radio right now, "one day you will slam the door ..."
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Re: Didier and the Potager du Sloth on C8 (It's only TV)




by Christophe » 08/06/19, 09:51

Did67 wrote:no, what I'm doing doesn't apply to a balcony planter, which works with a lot more "anthropization" - that is, artificialization. Culture media, fertilizers (even "organic"), possibly lighting ...


Sorry for that stupid question but why doesn't it work (once it's "seeded")? That is to say create a lazy mini or micro vegetable garden of a few m2?

Fish live very well in aquariums, stick insects in vivariums (etc) ... why can't bacteria and earthworms?

Hypothesis:
a) you prepare a few m2 of "sloth's vegetable garden" in real soil,
b) you carefully cut (following the dotted lines) 30 or 40 cm deep (or more? maybe that is the limiting factor?)
We do the same for stadium lawns a few cm.
c) you put it in a bin for balcony gardeners
d) you sell this in the local garden center ...

Worry this will be quite heavy and cumbersome to transport! : Cheesy:
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Re: Didier and the Potager du Sloth on C8 (It's only TV)




by Moindreffor » 08/06/19, 10:15

Christophe wrote:
Did67 wrote:no, what I'm doing doesn't apply to a balcony planter, which works with a lot more "anthropization" - that is, artificialization. Culture media, fertilizers (even "organic"), possibly lighting ...


Sorry for that stupid question but why doesn't it work (once it's "seeded")? That is to say create a lazy mini or micro vegetable garden of a few m2?

Fish live very well in aquariums, stick insects in vivariums (etc) ... why can't bacteria and earthworms?

Hypothesis:
a) you prepare a few m2 of "sloth's vegetable garden" in real soil,
b) you carefully cut (following the dotted lines) 30 or 40 cm deep (or more? maybe that is the limiting factor?)
We do the same for stadium lawns a few cm.
c) you put it in a bin for balcony gardeners
d) you sell this in the local garden center ...

Worry this will be quite heavy and cumbersome to transport! : Cheesy:

it seems to me that the worms dig galleries of several tens of centimeters deep, so it would be a fairly deep tank : Mrgreen:

for fish they survive in an aquarium would be fairer
I was lucky enough to be able to put aquarium fish (other than goldfish) in summer in outdoor pools in the summer, the observation of its fish in a "natural" environment, is totally different from what you observe in an aquarium

changes a fish from 30 ° C to 15 ° C by changing it from aquarium, it grabs a disease or dies, in summer pasture it passes without problem from the surface to the bottom with this same temperature difference and that hundreds of times per day
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Re: Didier and the Potager du Sloth on C8 (It's only TV)




by izentrop » 08/06/19, 15:14

Moindreffor wrote:it seems to me that the worms dig galleries of several tens of centimeters deep, so it would be a fairly deep tank
In nature, they perform mechanical soil loosening work and harbor microorganisms that decompose organic matter. The human doing all this work, they prove to be of no use in a planter.
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Re: Didier and the Potager du Sloth on C8 (It's only TV)




by Moindreffor » 08/06/19, 15:26

izentrop wrote:
Moindreffor wrote:it seems to me that the worms dig galleries of several tens of centimeters deep, so it would be a fairly deep tank
In nature, they perform mechanical soil loosening work and harbor microorganisms that decompose organic matter. The human doing all this work, they prove to be of no use in a planter.

so a planter will never be a living soil, but just a growing medium as Didier says, we agree
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Re: Didier and the Potager du Sloth on C8 (It's only TV)




by olivier75 » 08/06/19, 16:10

Moindreffor wrote:
izentrop wrote:
Moindreffor wrote:it seems to me that the worms dig galleries of several tens of centimeters deep, so it would be a fairly deep tank
In nature, they perform mechanical soil loosening work and harbor microorganisms that decompose organic matter. The human doing all this work, they prove to be of no use in a planter.

so a planter will never be a living soil, but just a growing medium as Didier says, we agree
I tend to consider a planter as more lively than a conventional garden. Indeed, the flowerpot is surely a bit small, the mini pot under led of c8, not really a model (except for a business school of course) but a tray a little big, with as a base enough soil can be carried so as to be much closer to living soil than to the conventional field.
I was able to make on a terrace, a somewhat large container (0,5x04x11m) with the potting soils and plants of the various planters, flower pots and tubs on site and about 1 trailer of soil brought back a we, cultivated leaving the weeds and crops in surface composting. Aside from hay, we are close to the way I manage my vegetable gardens. (speaking of hay, after having actually advised it, but without context, I saw hay for rabbits in mini bag from Truffaut come back, you have to be wary of how it is understood.) I can't find no photo...
Rather than putting a tub or a strip of soil in the same bag as a micro-pot under led, I think it would be more constructive to just ask to avoid xxxcides, organic or not and to feed the plants Vegetables or flowers) by covering the surface of weeds and other peelings.
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Re: Didier and the Potager du Sloth on C8 (It's only TV)




by to be chafoin » 09/06/19, 00:20

Excellent question, thank you to Christophe for asking it. For my part I agree with Didier on this one. It is impossible to concentrate the vegetable garden ecosystem on living soil in a planter. You cannot cut it according to the dotted lines without distorting it. The most limiting factor is often the light in the city, but there is a whole set that must be taken into consideration: from the bedrock which disintegrates in depth to the host weeds via the auxiliaries, mushrooms from far away and extending deep where earthworms take refuge in summer to escape the heat that dehydrates them, the water that can be stored to guarantee the living ... It is a network of dynamic interactions, of which we understand only a tiny part, and which seems impossible to set up in an urban context.
It is true that the closest (or the least distant) would be the evocation of Olivier (who is right for the constructive side, I would say almost didactic). By adding stones to the bottom of the tank, good sun exposure, etc ... we would get closer to a fairly complex installation to guarantee a certain durability as some green roofs may be today.
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Re: Didier and the Potager du Sloth on C8 (It's only TV)




by izentrop » 09/06/19, 01:53

olivier75 wrote:I tend to consider a planter as more lively than a conventional garden.
It is very possible, since it depends on the rate of organic matter and all the elements necessary for the maintenance of life: carbon for energy, water, air, temperature ... As we use potting soil, in general, this is ideal.
It can even measure up
chafoin wrote:The most limiting factor is often light in the city
It concerns plants, the life of the soil does not care. : Wink:
lesser effort wrote:a planter will never be a living soil
Very schematized: The main life is first microscopic. Worms and insects have a mechanical action, but those that have a chemical action are in their intestines.
A specialist will be able to respond better:
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Re: Didier and the Potager du Sloth on C8 (It's only TV)




by Did67 » 09/06/19, 09:00

Attention, no misinterpretation: I am not saying that "sandbox gardening" does not work !!! Since I'm not saying that conventional farming doesn't work ...

I say it's not a lazy man's vegetable garden! And that it is necessarily more "anthropized" - so we are in the paradigm "it is the man who does!" (which I oppose to the PP paradigm: "man makes do"):

a) impossible to have a "real" soil: the soil is an interface between the mineral (the rock which decomposes), at 95%, and the living (the OM which accumulates), at 5% - orders of greatness; a soil is built, by degradation of the bedrock, under the influence of climatic factors, thanks to the energy pumped by the plants, via a "work" done by living soil organisms; a soil undergoes positive and negative influences, the action of the climate, leaching (which releases sodium for example) ...

b) the "tray" (let us consider wider than a planter) on a roof or a balcony, will undergo stronger influences from the climate: the walls heat up in summer, freeze in winter, etc ...

c) we will work with culture media; even if we "cut up" as Christophe suggests, a slice of soil (which is never the case in Paris - remember the question I had 25 seconds to answer!), it will be " disconnected "and" artificialized; the mycorrhizae will not seek minerals at a depth of 2 m, where the soil is still wet and cool in summer; the system will not be "leached" each winter; it will not benefit from the elements released by soil minerals ...

d) there will be no surrounding ecosystem: meadows with ground beetles, hedgehogs, foraging en masse on the flowers of the neighboring meadow ... Suddenly, on the one hand, in the relatively "sterile" environment of the city, we will escape a lot of parasitism (yes, it's not just negative!), but we will not maintain biodiversity, we will not have the auxiliaries (at least in the same proportion (a few ladybugs or hoverflies can settle on a terrace and a balcony - we have many bees in the cities!)

In short, I am not saying that it does not work (at the cost of ignoring the durability of the growing media, fertilizers, irrigation, ...) ... I am not saying that the growing medium culture is not alive (of course there are mass microorganisms even in a flowerpot). I say that it is not a PP with what I set myself as criteria: to produce in abundance more than organic vegetables without pesticides, without fertilizers, often without watering - and of course in my vegetable garden I do not mention it: without artificial lighting (more than 70% nuclear).

To see recently in the newspaper of France2 is "report" on young people who develop kits, with pastilles: the pastille to cultivate a salad is worth twice the price of a salad in store! That sums up the "pros" well. I summed up the "against" ...
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Re: Didier and the Potager du Sloth on C8 (It's only TV)




by Adrien (ex-nico239) » 09/06/19, 11:32

Did67 wrote:Attention, no misinterpretation: I am not saying that "sandbox gardening" does not work !!! Since I'm not saying that conventional farming doesn't work ...

I say it's not a lazy man's vegetable garden! And that it is necessarily more "anthropized" - so we are in the paradigm "it is the man who does!" (which I oppose to the PP paradigm: "man makes do"):

a) impossible to have a "real" soil: the soil is an interface between the mineral (the rock which decomposes), at 95%, and the living (the OM which accumulates), at 5% - orders of greatness; a soil is built, by degradation of the bedrock, under the influence of climatic factors, thanks to the energy pumped by the plants, via a "work" done by living soil organisms; a soil undergoes positive and negative influences, the action of the climate, leaching (which releases sodium for example) ...

b) the "tray" (let us consider wider than a planter) on a roof or a balcony, will undergo stronger influences from the climate: the walls heat up in summer, freeze in winter, etc ...

c) we will work with culture media; even if we "cut up" as Christophe suggests, a slice of soil (which is never the case in Paris - remember the question I had 25 seconds to answer!), it will be " disconnected "and" artificialized; the mycorrhizae will not seek minerals at a depth of 2 m, where the soil is still wet and cool in summer; the system will not be "leached" each winter; it will not benefit from the elements released by soil minerals ...

d) there will be no surrounding ecosystem: meadows with ground beetles, hedgehogs, foraging en masse on the flowers of the neighboring meadow ... Suddenly, on the one hand, in the relatively "sterile" environment of the city, we will escape a lot of parasitism (yes, it's not just negative!), but we will not maintain biodiversity, we will not have the auxiliaries (at least in the same proportion (a few ladybugs or hoverflies can settle on a terrace and a balcony - we have many bees in the cities!)

In short, I am not saying that it does not work (at the cost of ignoring the durability of the growing media, fertilizers, irrigation, ...) ... I am not saying that the growing medium culture is not alive (of course there are mass microorganisms even in a flowerpot). I say that it is not a PP with what I set myself as criteria: to produce in abundance more than organic vegetables without pesticides, without fertilizers, often without watering - and of course in my vegetable garden I do not mention it: without artificial lighting (more than 70% nuclear).

To see recently in the newspaper of France2 is "report" on young people who develop kits, with pastilles: the pastille to cultivate a salad is worth twice the price of a salad in store! That sums up the "pros" well. I summed up the "against" ...


QED :!: :!: :!:
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