Agriculture: problems and pollution, new technologies and solutionsStrange degradation (?) Of a tomato plan on balcony

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Swiss_Knight
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Strange degradation (?) Of a tomato plan on balcony

Unread Messageby Swiss_Knight » 22/08/20, 15:59

Hello,

I noticed a slightly strange degradation of a tomato plan in a bin on my balcony, I will try to describe it as best as possible (I would point out, however, that my tomatoes in the ground do not suffer from this problem, moreover they do not still suffer from no harm, I touch wood).

Here is the topo; some leaves dry out completely, from green they pass to yellow then to brown and at this last stage are brittle (like a dead leaf).
The plant seems to want to like to "separate" from the leaflets by drying them before the stem, I think this is a pretty classic reaction.

The top of the plant does not seem (yet) affected but "it" goes up nicely. The young leaves at the top are slightly curled up (this probably has nothing to do with it) but as they develop they take on a completely normal shape and lose their curled up side.
On the most affected parts, even the main stem takes on a slightly brownish coloration. To have observed a year the black "spots" of the mildew, nothing like it here, it is the whole of the stem which takes nicely this coloring, there is no clear demarcation, it makes a gradient of green (there where the stem is still in full shape) to "brownish-green" where the leaves are dry. Flower buds and terminal points of some gourmets that I have left turn brown and dry out too, like the leaves, and the same as the leaves, the plant seems to want to separate from them by setting up a desiccation mechanism that this times is peculiar to itself, with a clear limit with the part from which it separates.

Until then I clearly thought that they did not have enough water and suffered from the full sun with the reverberation on the building, it is really severe. But ... I saw something really strange that I have never seen before; a cocoa or cinnamon-colored powder develops (?) deposited (where?) on a few petioles of affected leaflets (but by far not all), I have never seen that, I find it very strange, because I do not suspect d fungal attack and I did not see anything that looked like a fungus development.

Environmental data;
Altitude ~ 800m
Climatic zone: Swiss plateau, Central Europe, temperate oceanic climate (Cfb according to Köppen) humid continental limit (Dfb; due to the Alps & Jura)
Orientation of the balcony; south-east (good protection against the rains and prevailing winds)
Substrate; mixture of compost from a composting platform + degraded horse manure (2 years) + topsoil (molehill) with 5cm of clay balls at the bottom of the pot. Volume ~ 33x33x38cm
Regular waterings with tap water to keep the substrate moist.
Variety; no idea, the fruits are dark purple above and green below, then green turns red as they ripen.

Some pictures ;
(clickable images -> larger size)
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Did67
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Re: Strange degradation (?) Of a tomato shot on a balcony

Unread Messageby Did67 » 22/08/20, 16:27

Can you upload the photos to the site?

Under the "box" for entering messages, there are two tabs ["Options" and "Attachments"]. Click on attachment. At the end of the photo transfer, put the cursor on the input "box" and click on "insert ...".

The variety appears to be of the Indigo type (rich in anthocyanins = anti-oxidants).

It could still be downy mildew (or a related disease - alternaria or other type). The powder most likely spores, which are emitted to infect other feet ...

It is quite curious that this does not come on a balcony, generally "drier" (atmosphere of air / relative humidity) than crops do plain land
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Swiss_Knight
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Re: Strange degradation (?) Of a tomato shot on a balcony

Unread Messageby Swiss_Knight » 22/08/20, 16:31

It's okay for hosting images on site, but I can't edit my first post; when I click on the edit button I am facing this message:
"Information:
You can no longer edit or delete this message. "

So, (re) here are the images:

D71_0364.JPG


D71_0365.JPG


D71_0366.JPG


D71_0368.JPG
D71_0368.JPG (494.8 KiB) Viewed 387 times
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Did67
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Re: Strange degradation (?) Of a tomato shot on a balcony

Unread Messageby Did67 » 22/08/20, 17:43

Yes, we only have "a certain time" to re-edit. Afterwards, too late ...

I also sometimes quote myself to correct an error that I see afterwards.

Yes, the powder is most likely spores.

It is most likely a fungal disease.

Why here and not elsewhere? It is the mysteries of nature. Shade in the morning? Varietal sensitivity? Excess fertility with the consequence of weakening the plant? And 2 of the three? Or all three? Nature is complex.
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Re: Strange degradation (?) Of a tomato shot on a balcony

Unread Messageby Did67 » 22/08/20, 18:05

Small penchant for a violent attack of alternaria (even if the photos of the e-phytia site do not quite correspond; I think they only photographed early stages):

http://ephytia.inra.fr/fr/C/24048/Tropi ... A-linariae

https://www.iriisphytoprotection.qc.ca/ ... ageId=8205
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Swiss_Knight
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Re: Strange degradation (?) Of a tomato shot on a balcony

Unread Messageby Swiss_Knight » 22/08/20, 18:10

I am too curious, I really do not believe in this fungal attack, it is not possible, and it does not match with what I observe. Truly not.

So I took out the macro lens ... small zoom on this copper powder;

D71_0372.jpg

D71_0372_01.jpg


For your information, the petiole of this small leaf is between 1 and 2mm in diameter.

These little "worms" tell me nothing of value ... especially since with the naked eye impossible to see anything.

And discovered a hidden fruit ...
D71_0375.jpg



And dug, dug a lot ... until you find this:

Aculops lycopersici (responsible for the bronzed acariosis of the tomato, it matches 100% with what I observe, in English "tomato russet moth"), this dirt would come from Australia originally but would today be cosmopolitan and would attack mainly in greenhouses because like many mites it likes hot and dry.
50µm the bestiau ...

A little documentation:
- https://ira.agroscope.ch/it-CH/Page/Ein ... ionId=3052
- https://www.agroscope.admin.ch/agroscop ... A2NQ==.pdf
- https://www.koppert.fr/la-parole-a/bioc ... en-tomate/
- http://ephytia.inra.fr/fr/C/5135/Tomate ... ycopersici
- https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aculops_lycopersici
-


I would have learned something today, at least that.

All that remains is to burn all this .... The tomato; I will definitely never get there. :D : Evil:
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Re: Strange degradation (?) Of a tomato shot on a balcony

Unread Messageby Did67 » 22/08/20, 18:23

If you want to try your hand at a "determination key", for the tomato, it is from page 192 of this document (free online):

https://horizon.documentation.ird.fr/ex ... /36393.pdf
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Re: Strange degradation (?) Of a tomato shot on a balcony

Unread Messageby Did67 » 22/08/20, 18:30

Ah yes, great macros!

And indeed, these are not fungal spores, that is quite clear ...

I regularly have mite problems on my cucumbers in the greenhouse ... But a priori not these. I will however take a closer look at my tomatoes. It is initially quite different from fungal diseases. Even if in the end, the withered leaves look like withered leaves!

Don't overlook the fact that there can be two things at the same time.

The mite corresponds well to the drying / rolling of the terminal leaves ... as seen in a photo.

For cucumber mites, a typical "iridescence" of the leaves occurs before they subsequently dry out. But more like dry blond tobacco. Not "blackens".

About this mite, I don't know. In any case, we are at a too advanced stage of leaf damage ...
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Re: Strange degradation (?) Of a tomato shot on a balcony

Unread Messageby Did67 » 23/08/20, 10:18

Did67 wrote:
The mite corresponds well to the drying / rolling of the terminal leaves ... as seen in a photo.



I quote myself to insist: you have to keep an eye on that! Leaves that turn yellow, dry up: look upwards. Mildew, early blight, is on the "old" leaves and comes more from the bottom ... Terminal leaves are free.

On your macros, these "mites" suspended as if in a vacuum, from a canvas so thin that you can't see it, are a second criterion which, when you know it, jumps out pretty quickly!

But there are traps: for example bacterial wilt, which dries from bottom to top (however without "hanging particles"!) ...
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Re: Strange degradation (?) Of a tomato shot on a balcony

Unread Messageby Did67 » 23/08/20, 10:27

Note: mites are typically pests in greenhouses. Heat and dry atmosphere suit them ... Your balcony must "imitate" a greenhouse! The rain scares them away.

It is noticeable that your outdoor tomatoes are spared.

At home, on cucurbits, I started a film. The next day I take out all my macro gear to try to film, I install, etc ... And surprise: impossible to find these mites observed 24 hours before (and which I showed in number to my wife, with my magnifying glass botanist!). Not found. I couldn't finish my film! Cucumbers took a long time to recover. There are healthy green shoots again at the end (in the greenhouse).

Note that if I had dealt with anything, I would have concluded that .... it works! Wrongly. This is how "legends" are born on the internet. An erroneous diagnosis ("mildew" - as soon as a tomato leaf dries up, it is "mildew"). Treatment with whey or aspirin or whatever WITHOUT WITNESSES. Eureka, it works!
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