Are "forest gardens" the future of our vegetable gardens?

Agriculture and soil. Pollution control, soil remediation, humus and new agricultural techniques.
izentrop
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Re: Are "forest gardens" the future of our vegetable gardens?




by izentrop » 14/07/20, 16:13

Adrien (ex-nico239) wrote:Your graph illustrates what?
Cumulative nitrogen Cumulative nitrate-nitrogen leached, The Rodale Institute Farming Systems Trial 1991-2002. , it is not very clear, must see the rest.

In fact I just saw on the site that the types of culture are not the same. Agriculture without fertilizers or livestock is still doing well. https://rodaleinstitute.org/science/far ... tems-trial
Last edited by izentrop the 14 / 07 / 20, 16: 21, 1 edited once.
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Re: Are "forest gardens" the future of our vegetable gardens?




by Moindreffor » 14/07/20, 16:18

In my opinion, it illustrates the fact that fertilizing with vegetables is better than with animals or synthetic, right?
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Re: Are "forest gardens" the future of our vegetable gardens?




by sicetaitsimple » 14/07/20, 16:21

It is rather the nitrogen "leached" over a period of 10 years (see the document)
That said, the differences are not huge ....
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Re: Are "forest gardens" the future of our vegetable gardens?




by izentrop » 14/07/20, 16:23

Lesser effort: Legumes, not vegetables : Wink:
The animal surpasses in humus and yield, but not in protein, but is it really comparable?

It must be assumed that everything is taken into account in the study, because it is necessary to devote a surface to the animal.
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Adrien (ex-nico239)
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Re: Are "forest gardens" the future of our vegetable gardens?




by Adrien (ex-nico239) » 14/07/20, 16:37

izentrop wrote:
Adrien (ex-nico239) wrote:Your graph illustrates what?
it's not very clear, you have to see the rest.


We agree
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Re: Are "forest gardens" the future of our vegetable gardens?




by Moindreffor » 14/07/20, 17:32

izentrop wrote:It must be assumed that everything is taken into account in the study, because it is necessary to devote a surface to the animal.

it is true, but the animal, it does not suffer too much from the vagaries of the weather, it resists for example a shower of hail : Mrgreen: or a late jelly
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Re: Are "forest gardens" the future of our vegetable gardens?




by izentrop » 15/07/20, 09:12

Moindreffor wrote:
izentrop wrote:It must be assumed that everything is taken into account in the study, because it is necessary to devote a surface to the animal.
it is true, but the animal, it does not suffer too much from the vagaries of the weather, it resists for example a shower of hail : Mrgreen: or a late jelly
Fortunately, climatic disasters are not everywhere the same (well until now) so protein, whether plant or animal, we will always have it.

My reflection following the video of the "vegans" is at the level of maintaining a productive soil of human food by maintaining the humus and the life of the soil.
Know what additional area to devote to it, whether it is of plant origin only without the addition of animal excrement.

Gardeners easily find horse manure or hay for phenoculture, which even if it has little value today, uses a meadow area often abandoned following the gradual cessation of breeding in our countryside.
Recreational areas (horses, goats) which over time become buildable or transformed into plowed land. The hedges are razed, removing at the same time a significant part of biodiversity. ((some here prefer to blame it on synthetic pesticides, which is suicidal, that they do not come and complain about being invaded by flea beetles for example... let's stay in the subject please).

I would like to know, what total area is exploited, animal food included, to maintain a humus level of about 4%, as in the example, for the production of human food, in the same type of soil and climate. Surface which will inexorably increase with global warming.
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Re: Are "forest gardens" the future of our vegetable gardens?




by VetusLignum » 15/02/21, 14:31

A video with thoughts on how to reconcile vegetable crops and trees.
(not recommended for Moindreffror, because it is about land exchanges)
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Re: Are "forest gardens" the future of our vegetable gardens?




by Moindreffor » 15/02/21, 21:00

VetusLignum wrote:A video with thoughts on how to reconcile vegetable crops and trees.
(not recommended for Moindreffror, because it is about land exchanges)

i love the factional reality of bringing back a little something from your travels, currently the world thanks everyone who brought back a little variant from their trip to Brazil, South Africa or England
So yes it is beautiful the inoculum when they are positive, it is less so when it is negative except that when we report something, we do not know what we are reporting

with the current pandemic, being still to move things to increase biodiversity, is to forget a little quickly, all those who would prefer that the little more biodiversity that killed them remains where it was ... either in nature and that it does not pass to Man

so yes the story is beautiful, well told, but so full of complicit innocence, too little for me
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Re: Are "forest gardens" the future of our vegetable gardens?




by VetusLignum » 16/02/21, 11:22

Moindreffor wrote:
VetusLignum wrote:A video with thoughts on how to reconcile vegetable crops and trees.
(not recommended for Moindreffror, because it is about land exchanges)

i love the factional reality of bringing back a little something from your travels, currently the world thanks everyone who brought back a little variant from their trip to Brazil, South Africa or England
So yes it is beautiful the inoculum when they are positive, it is less so when it is negative except that when we report something, we do not know what we are reporting

with the current pandemic, being still to move things to increase biodiversity, is to forget a little quickly, all those who would prefer that the little more biodiversity that killed them remains where it was ... either in nature and that it does not pass to Man

so yes the story is beautiful, well told, but so full of complicit innocence, too little for me



The problem is, if we were to follow your logic, we would have to close our borders, and hide at home. This is not the logic of life. Even before there were planes, there was trade, and epidemics circulated.

Regarding invasive species, the problem is that they come to us and destabilize our ecosystems, but their natural regulators are slow in coming. The logic of Hervé Coves is that the extension of the area of ​​species is part of the logic of life, and that it is futile to fight against, and that it is necessary, on the contrary, to amplify it, in order to let natural regulatory mechanisms do their job.

Moreover, the logic of moving species was not invented by humans; this has always existed, except that before it was done mainly by birds and mammals (especially if they are migratory).

15000 years ago, there was not much like life in Europe, life made its reconquest from the South and the East following the deglaciation, and suddenly, our ecosystems are still very young and unstable. ; over the past 12000 years, there has been regular destabilization of the ecosystem by the arrival of a new species, followed by further stabilization; and there is no reason for it to stop today.

But what I'm saying does not apply to islands that have evolved in isolation such as New Caledonia or New Zealand, where the arrival of a new species can have a really destructive effect, and in which case it is better to protect the existing.
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