Conservation agriculture

[Did67]

The development of "militant bio", in reaction to chemical agriculture, dates back to about fifty years. Even if reflections, experiences, precursors existed long before. Biodynamics dates back to the 1910s ... The Lemaire-Bouché method emerged in the 1960s ... Nature et Progrès was founded in 1964 ...

For me, the real "coming out" (a curious average Frenchman then being able to hear about it - activist meetings, magazines, physical presence of sellers in the markets) would be at the end of the 70s ...

[Janic]

by Did67 "23/02/20, 10:14 AM

The development of "militant bio", in reaction to chemical agriculture, dates back to about fifty years. Even if reflections, experiences, precursors existed long before. Biodynamics dates back to the 1910s ... The Lemaire-Bouché method emerged in the 1960s ... Nature et Progrès was founded in 1964 ...

It’s very fair! It is just like in agriculture, you first need circumstances, an environment favorable to growth, then come the buds, then the flowers and leaves and finally the fruits; which fruits also require time to ripen as they do now.

For me, the real "coming out" (a curious average Frenchman then being able to hear about it - activist meetings, magazines, physical presence of sellers in the markets) would be at the end of the 70s ...

indeed in a society in turmoil (May 68) which throws the shackles to the nettles and begin to return to the sources and you are the direct heir with your more than organic!

[Did67]

I discovered "this" organic there at the end of the 70s, at the agro!

Yes, it is not because of the teaching that the agros are idiots. This is because they have made the choice to compromise themselves in this or that company which has paid them handsomely. That following other paths is risky ... They could, like me, make the choice never to get rich! This is called ethics ...

This does not prevent me not to idolize the "organic" more than necessary, to consider that it is an advance (I always repeat it in my confs), but that we can aspire to be well further. Especially as an individual, in his own vegetable garden, where we are free, we have no constraints (the market, the loans to be repaid ...). So I find it sad that we limit ourselves to "organic" - grelinette, compost, copper sulphates, pyrethrum or "neem" and other "unfinished thoughts" ...

This is the meaning of my action, which has roots !!! And I hope, an ethics.

[Did67]

PS: I am particularly touched by the fact that you "liked" my message! If someone had told me that one day ...

[Paul72]

why not consider an outright ban on plowing? compulsory inter-crop land cover?

Prohibitions and obligations have always led to disasters, as we have seen with Lyssenko or other authoritarian regimes.

Farmers have not done deep plowing on their own for a long time. Plowing at 20 cm may be the best solution under certain conditions. You should not want to impose your ideas on those whose job it is.

Formerly physically difficult, agriculture has become much more difficult psychologically. Young people no longer want to take up the torch.

With the fuel shortages to come, tillage will decrease. Besides, I think that robots will take over for sowing, weeding ... The big means for harvesting.

I invite you to come and see here ... no soil conservation agriculture, plowing up to 30 or 40cm, sometimes twice a year without counting the burial of crop remains, plowing and glyphosate up '' flush with the ditch (sometimes it overflows a little ...), including for young farmers with large brand new tractors, who take the opportunity to shave off the few hedges and fill / drain the few wetlands and remaining ponds. It's reality here
But hey, if I could manage to convince some to evolve it would be progress, so for that I need economic arguments and not only ecological (because that, honestly, it does not interest unfortunately many people here)

[Janic]

by Did67 "23/02/20, 10:51 AM

PS: I am particularly touched by the fact that you "liked" my message! If someone had told me that one day ...

on the contrary! I really appreciate your work on this subject. (and I told you so!) The confusion that opposed us comes from the fact that what you call more than organic, I call it real organic, that is to say beyond the label. So it's just a question of terminology! AND I encourage everyone who criticizes organic to get to know it better through your huge work of disclosure, because that's real organic!

[Paul72]

Having discussed some time ago with a market gardener "Nature et Progrès", their specifications are still a little more virtuous than organic "AB", since they have for example an obligation to promote biodiversity through conservation or the establishment of hedges, wetlands or other. and e prefer natural "homemade" preparations such as fermented extracts, infusions etc ... rather than ready-made products.

[Did67]

Totally agree. There are also social considerations, at Nature et Progrès ... There are still values ​​as a legacy of the "pioneers"! It is therefore indeed a label that guarantees more than the "certified organic AB" (the AB label or the European green leaf). As biodynamics (Demeter label) guarantees more than just "organic" ...

And beware: criticizing does not mean destroying. We must add all the chapels. Not to promote schisms. To criticize means "to be lucid", and to act in conscience.

I can do more.

And it amuses me madly to do more.

But I do not live!

[Janic]

This does not prevent me not to idolize the "organic" more than necessary, to consider that it is an advance (I always repeat it in my confs), but that we can aspire to be well further. Especially as an individual, in his own vegetable garden, where we are free, we have no constraints (the market, the loans to be repaid ...). So I find it sad that we limit ourselves to "organic" - grelinette, compost, copper sulphates, pyrethrum or "neem" and other "unfinished thoughts" ...

because you have to put things in context and in each time. The gardeners are not pros always on the lookout for the last element favorable to their profession, and the pros do not use a grelinette either, they have powerful tractors and hardly any horses.
But idolizing organic is actually a bad attitude, no better than idolizing synthetic pesticides. But in reality who is talking about idolizing this organic, if not the idolaters of the chemical who just ignore the scope and limits of organic.

This is the meaning of my action, which has roots !!! And I hope, an ethics.

and that's what I appreciate in you, your measure and your professionalism.

[Moindreffor]

Organic is an assembly of ancestral practices and works of agricultural engineers (enough to please ABC) with the help of current means and technologies. Did Did promote!

the last time you told us that the bio came from Steiner and his disciples which is far from the work of agricultural engineers, but Steiner is a philosopher, really follow you with your definitions with variable geometry on the origin of organic, and do not try to put Didier in there to give weight to your statements ...

you confuse, I don't support organic unconditionally like you don't make me support of petrochemicals, it is not because I have a critical mind on organic, that I support petrochemicals, and It is also not because I am a chemist that I also support petrochemicals, I just say that as a chemist I am more legitimate than you to talk about chemistry, because it is my training, you do not have no training in biology and you say you are more competent than me in the field, some may believe you (I did a bit of biochemistry and biology too ...),