Can agriculture be self-sufficient in energy?

[Moindreffor]

You can be insulting that will not change my position ...

50 m² times the number of (crappy) golf lawns in France ... that's a few tens of thousands of hectares and a hell of a reduction in intensive agriculture ... you are almost independent 2 to 3 months per year with 32 m²! Do the count across the country ...

Yes this year I cultivated my greenhouse of 20 m2 ...

Source or method of calculating 15 m000? With or without the meat?

insulting I do not see how, you come in this part of the forum, throw us an info like what 50m² it is a beautiful vegetable garden whereas here, we have long since closed the debate on self-sufficiency and we almost all agreed on the surface of 1.5ha without meat because for a cow , her calf and a heifer already need 1.5ha

afterwards, I don't think that in France we have a few tens of thousands of hectares of golf courses, even if I do not appreciate the use of agricultural land or not to put golf courses there, it is illusory to think that with 50m² garden we can feed our family

then you go from a few meals a week, what I wrote, I mean not every day, to almost independent, it's a very very quick shortcut, when I say a few meals it's just at the level vegetables, a ratatouille, a quiche, salads, next to it I must like said above buy bread, pasta, rice and meat, I am not a vegetarian, if it was the case I would have to no longer produce legumes

I therefore reacted to this surface too small to feed a family, but which allows me to eat fresh tomatoes that have taste, I do not buy any otherwise except frozen or in boxes because they are then picked at ripened and processed immediately and a few other vegetables, but if I had to be content with my production, I would have nothing for very long months

afterwards you are free to believe, but here, without wanting to insult you, we know very well that it is false

[Christophe]

Softly coconut!

The debate is self-sufficiency in energy ... what a lazy vegetable garden allows.

The debate is not food self-sufficiency ... I never said that a 50m² vegetable garden allowed food self-sufficiency I said that it was possible in energy self-sufficiency for a lot of people who have a garden of more than 300 m2 ... That's it!

Then I talk to you about lawns in private "golf" gardens which are useless (except to kill biodiversity !!) and which are present in the vast majority of GARDENS !! I'm not talking about a real golf lawn ...

[sicetaitsimple]

50 m² times the number of (crappy) golf lawns in France ... that's a few tens of thousands of hectares and a hell of a reduction in intensive agriculture ...

Regarding the "sacred potential", we still have to put into perspective ... "The cultivation of fresh vegetables covers 234 hectares in France (0,85% of the UAA, agricultural area used),

http://www.anefa.org/metiers/v%C3%A9g%C ... C3%AEchage

[Christophe]

And how much for the surface of the private gardens?

History of really relativizing ...

[Obamot]

I recall what could be a field of application of energy self-sufficiency ...

Vertical vegetable crops in the city - the surface grows higher - greedy in Co2 and with fertilizer of human excrement in abundance on the spot ... (subject to the precondition of “cleaning up humans” first and for that you sometimes need ad hoc laws ...)

https://www.bilan.ch/opinions/catherine ... nu_realite

And ultra-short distribution circuit ...

[sicetaitsimple]

And how much for the surface of the private gardens?

History of really relativizing ...

Do you play the donkey ... to have hay?

I was just saying that if, by a wave of the magic wand, all of French vegetable production was produced in private gardens, the agricultural surface used would be reduced by less than 1%. Which seems far from your " a great potential for reducing intensive agriculture ".
And still it would be necessary to be certain that it is "less intensive", which is not obvious.
Well, the magic wand in question does not exist, no need to go further I think.

[Christophe]

Hi Han !

Who says a garden can't produce grain?

Hi Han !

Not verified but I think that 60% to 70% of agricultural land in France is used for livestock (meat and milk)

Hi Han !

France is the leading European agricultural producer ... we must therefore not count the ha of production intended for export ... Since we are talking about self-sufficiency ...

Hi Han !

What prevents growing chickens at home? A few tens of m² are enough ... a source of meat and protein ...

Hi Han !

Are we talking about the 50% food waste? 50% waste = more than 50% of agricultural land wasted ...

Hi Han ! Hi Han ! Hi Han !

[Obamot]

Why don't you apply the same regime to him as to me if I said the same things!

Do you play the donkey ... to have hay?

I was just saying that if, by a wave of the magic wand, all of French vegetable production was produced in private gardens, the agricultural surface used would be reduced by less than 1%. Which seems far from your " a great potential for reducing intensive agriculture ".
And still it would be necessary to be certain that it is "less intensive", which is not obvious.
Well, the magic wand in question does not exist, no need to go further I think.

You don't need hay to be a donkey!

Urban market gardening
- "Vegetable gardens can be up to 15 times more productive than farms in rural areas," explains the FAO. An area of ​​one square meter can provide 20 kg of food per year ”. (SourceFAO) https://www.futura-sciences.com/planete ... aine-4797/

The advantages of urban agriculture
Different foodstuffs can be produced through urban agriculture. It is quite possible to grow vegetables, fruits, aromatic herbs but also edible flowers and produce seeds. Urban farmers can also choose to raise chickens or rabbits. Finally, thanks to fruit trees (apple, cherry or other), we can consume the fruit directly, or extract the juice as a drink.

What I like about you is your “open-mindedness” ...

[Moindreffor]

so if you talk about self-sufficiency in energy to cultivate your vegetable garden the debate is closed, it is 100% yes, we can even go towards 1000m² even double with the help of neighbors, making a vegetable garden does not consume any energy, except perhaps that to make tools

but we then go into conventional, digging, because the systematic use of hay on such surfaces is impossible if we generalize, or else we must eliminate the leisure horses,

now the surface area of ​​pavilions are often in the order of 450 to 500m² from that you deduct the area of ​​the house, accesses, a terrace so find your 300m² It's going to be difficult, then if we take the inhabitants of a 10-story tower, where do they grow crops? Didier had calculated the cost of a kilo of green beans produced on a green roof, it was around 3000 € and some see it as a solution ...

Regarding the use of human excreta as fertilizer, we must forget, possibly replace the wastewater treatment plants with methanizers

let's admit that all French people who have a space to cultivate start gardening, it should be organic, and that each gardener can produce his own plants, seeds because if he plants bought things it's just move the problem and therefore nothing is solved

produce its own cereals, in non-intensive yield we would be on 400g per m², wheat, enough to feed a hen for 10 days so we would already be on nearly 40 m² for a hen, or about 300 eggs per year ...

I think that starting with such upheavals is typically what the new green mayors are doing, superb ideas in absolute terms, but which go the opposite of what the majority of people are looking for, c 'is impractical, because unacceptable by the majority and nothing says that it would be profitable and suddenly, a loss of membership, estimated at -14% according to a survey

it would be wiser to modify the ecological discourse, to make it evolve towards compromise and not rejection, we hear the word transition 10 times a day, but in the discourse, reality is more the disappearance of a practice to replace it by another that we THINK better, young people who love nature are also starting to get tired of not being able to enjoy a landscape without seeing fields of wind turbines.

[Moindreffor]

Urban market gardening
- "Vegetable gardens can be up to 15 times more productive than farms in rural areas," explains the FAO. An area of ​​one square meter can provide 20 kg of food per year ”. (SourceFAO) https://www.futura-sciences.com/planete ... aine-4797/

The advantages of urban agriculture
Different foodstuffs can be produced through urban agriculture. It is quite possible to grow vegetables, fruits, aromatic herbs but also edible flowers and produce seeds. Urban farmers can also choose to raise chickens or rabbits. Finally, thanks to fruit trees (apple, cherry or other), we can consume the fruit directly, or extract the juice as a drink.

What I like about you is your “open-mindedness” ...

producing doesn't mean anything, a tomato plant grows in a 10cm square of rock wool³ and organic, as said in my previous post, Didier's calculation € 3000 per kilo of green beans in urban production on green roofs

So yes, we can produce, but at what cost and what feed?