A vegetable meadow?

[Did67]

Can we all of a sudden say that hay will give faster results for ordinary gardeners.

While the most skittish will test both: hay / straw-clover?

Hay is easy and "works without surprises" (well with good surprises normally from the first year).

Then, we can "improve", try, quibble, have fun ... (as already said, if we have room; or friends a little Green Khmer around the edges)

[Adrien (ex-nico239)]

Ouh la c'est une scoop ....
Well i take note

Verification made in an excellent book whose title escapes me but it will come back to me, that's kif kif [but for hay given the lack of data - the humification of hay has never been experienced. is therefore a given "I allow myself to heal"], but as the clover makes powerful roots, this biomass must be added, part of which will be transformed into humic substances.

I should have written: "slightly better probably".

OK...

If you find the reference of the book it's gladly

[Did67]

I think that speaks of laziness in the vegetable garden!

[Adrien (ex-nico239)]

I have to rest myself

[Moindreffor]

you are talking about hay and straw, which can be bought in bales or rolls which are resources for farmers
you forget a resource for us but a waste for the farmer, litter straw or manure, like litter straw for horses

farmers often spread their manure on their fields, but buying some must be possible

on the other hand the owners of horses are often very happy to be able to get rid of this manure which clogs them most often, like for example horse clubs also

So we have a straw with cow or horse excrement, where are we closer to straw or hay? the hundred bale question (hay)

[Adrien (ex-nico239)]

you are talking about hay and straw, which can be bought in bales or rolls which are resources for farmers
you forget a resource for us but a waste for the farmer, litter straw or manure, like litter straw for horses

farmers often spread their manure on their fields, but buying some must be possible

on the other hand the owners of horses are often very happy to be able to get rid of this manure which clogs them most often, like for example horse clubs also

So we have a straw with cow or horse excrement, where are we closer to straw or hay? the hundred bale question (hay)

Eh the litter straw they also sell it there is no small profit, indeed it is not sold very expensive but it is sold

As said elsewhere we also had the good surprise of being strongly invited by a nearby equestrian center to rid it partly of its horse manure.

Needless to say, there is still a huge pile left.

However beware without gear is a big hassle

Doing it by hand with a shovel is a dingo job.

This therefore implies shovel (mechanical) or bull (ideally owned by the equestrian center of course) and trailer or, even better, truck to transport all of this.

Because once loaded we did not leave the hostel.

The advantage of the truck is that the tipper tilts with a very steep angle.

I made two trips with the 1m high drop side trailer fully loaded.

And one is VERY heavy so pay attention to the weight limits of the trailer.

Besides, even when tilting the trailer over a natural step on the ground, well, the manure remained stuck in it ...

It's real plasticine.

And unloading plasticine with a shovel is not a lazy job

This is why we did not go looking for it and we are waiting for the right opportunity to recover a (small) dump truck for an hour.

Apart from that it's free which is already not bad.

To illustrate the fact that everything can be bought is sold and recycled
http://www.terrestraditions.com/m-15-la-societe.html

They tour the ... racetracks, buy the cows' litter ... do the composting job and sell it all at ... a certain price.

I went to see them for a delivery but from memory it was not within our means and delivered only by the ton.

If you watch some MSV videos the ton of compost is not expensive but often it is the resource to go get it.

That said if we have the availability to make several trips over time and transport small quantities each time (low trailer style) my faith why not do that with the mimine.

[Did67]

... where are we closer to straw or hay? the hundred bale question (hay)

I wonder if in the same idiotic book, there is no question!

Answer tomorrow!

[to be chafoin]

I went to see them for a delivery but from memory it was not within our means and delivered only by the ton.
If you watch some MSV videos the ton of compost is not expensive but often it is the resource to go get it.

By rummaging a bit on this site from a professional composter, the tonne of the finest compost is 60eur and the coarser is just under 20eur.
http://www.sivom-sag.fr/fr/compost-1/venir-acheter-du-compost.html
You can read the composition-analysis of the compost.

[to be chafoin]

Yes, hay that has taken on water, either during haymaking, or then in the form of bales left outside, loses a lot of value in terms of forage: certain soluble nutrients are leached; molds can settle and animals no longer consume it ...

So it’s a bargain every time, of course.

[I'm still waiting for the rain, but here the temperatures are dropping; it should come - after almost 1,5 months with nothing new!]

If nutrients are leached, is it really a godsend? Of course we do not talk about the same animals, but it is good to feed micro-organisms and animals (soil) all the same.

[to be chafoin]

The negative effect of the hedge and a tree is on two or three meters, but I think it's something else: a competition from each other's mycorrhizal fungi for water and minerals. Especially water this year, where the difference jumped out at me!

Yes, I also have a narrow board aligned with the vine which, itself, is aligned with a few trees, including a pine tree. And actually it is not brilliant: all the tomatoes have rather vegetated ... the same for a zucchini plant and celeriac, even if the voles also served there.

About the problem of mycorrhizas at this border point: Laurent Welsh also says in his conf. that those of the forest compete with those of the meadow and advises to install or maintain rosacea (brambles, small fruit, strawberry, raspberry ...) which would be a good hinge of these spaces since they would have the capacity to come into symbiosis with both types of mycorrhizae.