A small question of agricultural mechanics ...

Agriculture and soil. Pollution control, soil remediation, humus and new agricultural techniques.
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Grelinette
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A small question of agricultural mechanics ...




by Grelinette » 11/12/10, 19:34

I use my horse for skidding and I have made some tools.

For example, here is a log grapple (made with mason's clamps):
Image

and a trinqueballe or triqueballe (made with wheelbarrow wheels and materials of various origins ...):
Image

and here is the association of the 2 (sorry ... of the 3 with the horse!):
Image
(soon I will fix a small seat on the trinqueballe, it will make a sort of skidding sulky very practical to slalom between the trees in the forest!)

I just found this manual pliers which has a different clamping system than the one I did.
(left in blue and orange)
Image

In your opinion, is this system more effective in clamping the clamp?
(it can be interesting for very large trunks to lift)

Image
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by Flytox » 11/12/10, 20:05

I do not know the logging problems, but it seems to me that the 2 systems have a drawback. When you stop pulling the pliers fall or drop the load. In the case where we want to move the wood horizontally it is a drawback, if the horse stops on any obstacle, right?
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by zorglub » 11/12/10, 20:40

Oh ! yeah, it's not badly thought out! but have you planned the patches in case the wheel bursts ... as we say with us: smart smart!
you still need a passage width sufficient to slalom between the trees
good skidding
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by dedeleco » 11/12/10, 22:19

In my opinion that does not change much, what can change is the leverage effect with much longer joint clamps on the side pulled by the horse, to multiply the force and better hook, but with logs close to the ton, it is not necessary, the hook sinks enough to stay pressed even when stopped.

The slightly distorted parallelogram serves to keep the handle horizontal.
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by Obamot » 11/12/10, 22:46

I would not comment on the holding compared to the weight (in agreement with what was said), on the other hand the second with the orange handle has some advantages:
- the asymmetrical tightening behavior should improve the resistance.
- the handle is very close to the log, so the clamping effect is optimal.
- the fact that it is off-center, not only the weight but the off-center will make the hold will be better.
- it is lighter.
- the handle is obviously much more comfortable when "worn".

Negative points:
- maybe more difficult to wear (less comfortable outfit because of the shift). So tiring to wear like this on longer journeys. Mébon, that must be compensated by the counter-bend at the end of the handle, which must make it possible to recover better hold!
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by Grelinette » 11/12/10, 23:46

To quickly answer questions and remarks:

- the clamp with the clamps do not loosen when the horse stops. On the contrary with the tensile force the points sink into the wood and it is necessary to give a small blow to unhook them. On the other hand it is at the beginning that it is more difficult because it is necessary to fix the clamp well before advancing with the horse.
As it is about 8 kg for 75 cm a few times it is less practical. I would have to put a small clamping spring.

- If I understood correctly, a priori the parallelogram system of the small clamp (orange and blue) only serves to keep the handle horizontal. Indeed, in hand it is very practical because we do not stoop to pick up the logs and it hangs very well because the tips are sharp. In addition, there is a blow to take to easily unhook the wood with a wrist movement.

The parallelogram system looks simple enough to make and I wanted to make an identical one but a little bigger and stronger to use it with the horse.
But if the system only serves to keep the handle horizontal, it's not worth it.

I will therefore focus my crafts on the toast-ball which needs further development. (e.g. headquarters)

If the trunk to move is very very heavy, I have trouble folding the tube (lever) to lift the trunk. I would have to find a winch system that I can easily fix: I fix the front of the lever to the trunk with the chain, and I lift the trunk with a winch at the level of the clamp and the wheels.
I thought of a system made with another metal tube which sinks in the extension of the lever and around which a cable is wound with a bar to turn, but it is not simple. If you have any ideas...

It is also necessary that I put bars so that if I hang a wheel while passing near a tree, it slides on the trunk of the tree not to block (otherwise the horse will pull until breaking something) .

It is also necessary that think of a system to transport the branches with the toast-ball. I think I need to be able to fix something in the square tubes that hold the wheels. Here too, ideas and suggestions are welcome.

For punctures, there is no risk: the wheels cannot be punctured! (I found them on the right corner at 20 € for 2, a good deal). It is an English company which manufactures them and I saw an advertisement where one sees the wheel pierced with large nails and which rolls still!
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by Christophe » 11/12/10, 23:55

These are 2 auto clamps, the heavier, the more you pull and the more it is used :) Magic ! Obviously there are limits.

To know which of the 2 systems is the most effective, it is necessary to make a diagram of the static forces for a given angle / position while knowing that all the forces cancel each other out at equilibrium (i.e. when it is tight ).

It's been over 10 years since I did more ... but I'm sure that Remundo who is still "inside" will solve this for you in 10 minutes!
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by chatelot16 » 12/12/10, 00:46

what do you call transporting branches? attach several by the big end and leave everything lying behind?

your wheels seem very small ... I will see much better real wooden cartwheels ... or imitations of iron

or 21 inch all terrain motorcycle front tires on a special iron rim ... I intend to do that
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by Obamot » 12/12/10, 07:05

As Chatelot says!

The more I think about it: : Mrgreen:

Image

Optional model with bucket: : Mrgreen: (Flytox, get out of this body)

Image

It is the chassis above that provides rigidity and paralaxis, if you want to put a seat, at least you will be safe. (You have to add brakes, unless you use the trunk by making it more or less drag / touch on the ground ...)

To know which of the 2 systems is the most effective, it is necessary to make a diagram of the static forces for a given angle / position while knowing that all the forces cancel each other out at equilibrium (i.e. when it is tight ).

It's a good idea, but is it worth it? Above a certain load (anything that cannot be done by hand) it is better that it is centered. As for portable in hand, it doesn't need to, since it already has "the clamp", so it's easy to gauge if it's okay (and it looks fine. ).
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by Christophe » 12/12/10, 10:59

Well a priori, you will not be able to use a car tightening on the back ... but whatever is enough of an axle ...

To answer the original question, you can try to model with PHUN physics and mechanics simulator. Obviously it is not worth a real finished element software but it gives an idea ...

Examples of what this does: http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=phun

Waw kk1 has managed to model a ... slot machine! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AmvIOZ8MLFU : Cheesy:
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