Permaculture and phenoculture for beginners

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Chris of corsica
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Re: Permaculture and phenoculture for beginners




by Chris of corsica » 22/02/18, 18:31

good evening ,, in the absence of having straw for the vegetable garden that I want to start ,,, I seek solution for my ground cover
for horse manure ,, goat ,, sheep ,,,,, and other
I imagine that it must be rich in nitrogen ??
I can have wood chips are other for carbon
in volume ! Nitrogen 1 \ carbon ???? 1 \ ??? ,,, in volume ????
did you have an idea and poins of spotted ,,, for volumes used between one and the other ??? to not have an excess of nitrogen ,,,,,
thanks if you had an idea ,,,,,
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Re: Permaculture and phenoculture for beginners




by Did67 » 22/02/18, 18:42

1) If your manure is manure (= mixture of straws and excrement of the animals mentioned), no! It is rather low in nitrogen (with a large variation depending on the amount of urine in it)

2) Sawdust:

a) beware of essences with tannins: oaks, chestnuts - which will take a little longer (tannins are a "blocker" of biological life, this is so that the skins are tanned to make leathers; wines rich in tannins keep ...).

b) important depressive effect to predict, but formation of humic substances: ideally, if you have areas that you will not cultivate immediately, you put a lot of them; you grow legumes (clover, alfalfa, broad beans, beans, lupines ...) and you let 2 or 3 pass ...
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Re: Permaculture and phenoculture for beginners




by Ahmed » 22/02/18, 19:00

Yes, tannins are a "blocker" of biological life, it is what protects the tree against possible aggressors. But your shortcut: "it's to tan the skins to make leathers" suggests a divine plan! : Lol:
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Re: Permaculture and phenoculture for beginners




by Chris of corsica » 22/02/18, 19:27

Did67 wrote:1) If your manure is manure (= mixture of straws and excrement of the animals mentioned), no! It is rather low in nitrogen (with a large variation depending on the amount of urine in it)

2) Sawdust:

a) beware of essences with tannins: oaks, chestnuts - which will take a little longer (tannins are a "blocker" of biological life, this is so that the skins are tanned to make leathers; wines rich in tannins keep ...).

b) important depressive effect to predict, but formation of humic substances: ideally, if you have areas that you will not cultivate immediately, you put a lot of them; you grow legumes (clover, alfalfa, broad beans, beans, lupines ...) and you let 2 or 3 pass ...


thank you for your raiponce ,,, I thought a test to do to know the nitrogen rate ??? make a pile of turf and another manure of the same volume watered both ,, and see if the manure heats + that the turf or less ,,,,, and as his I can, perhaps know by comparison take the grass as a base for nitrogen ????? it is a good method for tested ????
if there is another I am a taker ,,,
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Re: Permaculture and phenoculture for beginners




by Did67 » 22/02/18, 19:33

Ahmed wrote:Yes, tannins are a "blocker" of biological life, it is what protects the tree against possible aggressors. But your shortcut: "it's to tan the skins to make leathers" suggests a divine plan! : Lol:


It was just missing an "that"! It's for it we tanned the skins ... damn!
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Re: Permaculture and phenoculture for beginners




by Did67 » 22/02/18, 19:36

Chris from corse wrote:... and see if the manure heats + grass or less ,,,,, and as its I can, maybe know by comparison take the turf as a base for nitrogen ????? it is a good method for tested ????
if there is another I am a taker ,,,


No, it's not a good method ... If the speed at which bacteria grow is related to the ease with which they find nitrogen, this is not, by far, the only factor: humidity plays so much ... and the ease with which the nitrogenous substance is accessible ... and the nature of this substance ...
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Re: Permaculture and phenoculture for beginners




by Chris of corsica » 22/02/18, 20:01

Did67 wrote:
Chris from corse wrote:... and see if the manure heats + grass or less ,,,,, and as its I can, maybe know by comparison take the turf as a base for nitrogen ????? it is a good method for tested ????
if there is another I am a taker ,,,


No, it's not a good method ... If the speed at which bacteria grow is related to the ease with which they find nitrogen, this is not, by far, the only factor: humidity plays so much ... and the ease with which the nitrogenous substance is accessible ... and the nature of this substance ...


then how do I know? the mixing of manure and carbon, and how to know with a little time whether there is an excess of nitrogen or not? :?:
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Re: Permaculture and phenoculture for beginners




by Did67 » 22/02/18, 20:48

It is not an exact science.

But we find on the internet C / N ratios of various substances.

After, you have to calculate a little ...

I want a C / N from 20. I have one material at 8 and the other at 150 ...

AND here, a nice math exercise with two unknowns! Oulalala, I'm going to run away from the world!

With a trap: it must first convert to dry matter (MS) ...

So it's a bit complicated ...
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Re: Permaculture and phenoculture for beginners




by izentrop » 22/02/18, 21:08

Too much carbon will take longer to decompose, but it does not matter and in well ventilated and humidified pile, the process is accelerated
with a sanitizing rise in temperature. https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rapport_C ... organiques
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Chris of corsica
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Re: Permaculture and phenoculture for beginners




by Chris of corsica » 22/02/18, 21:35

Did67 wrote:It is not an exact science.

But we find on the internet C / N ratios of various substances.

After, you have to calculate a little ...

I want a C / N from 20. I have one material at 8 and the other at 150 ...

AND here, a nice math exercise with two unknowns! Oulalala, I'm going to run away from the world!

With a trap: it must first convert to dry matter (MS) ...

So it's a bit complicated ...


I'll see what I found on the net for the c / n, you had already spoken a c / n 20! and if I see that it is not clear enough to understand the dose of ((manure))) has not exceeded ,,, I will put little manure ,,,, to mine I would be sure not to exceed the dose and still less saturais my soil nitrogen (soil life or worse pollution of its natural sicle ... its serer damage;) : Shock: :( it is better to have a light hand when or not c or we go) ,,,,,
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