Blow against bio-dynamics

[Adrien (ex-nico239)]

edith4278 wrote:
By being interested in organic production, I discovered the methods of biodynamic agriculture and the large-scale use of horns and blood of animals intended to be used as fertilizer for the cultivation of fields.

A real animal massacre! Strictly in relation to your question AND to your way on the roof to see things, well in this case, be sure to check, if you can, that what you consume has been cultivated or not with "waste" d 'animals.
Ironically, you may discover that organic people use animal "waste" and that conventional people don't use it ...
It remains to find bios that do not use them.
This poses the huge problem of traceability.
In my opinion it is impossible.
All that remains is to trust
You just discovered its limits

Edith can give her opinion, but the question asked is different and relates to the slaughter of animals and in fact the use of their waste, both being linked.
Then, the products used lose their initial specificity by the transformation that the plant operates (when you eat a product cultivated with organic waste linked to the defecation of animals, you do not consume shit either.) In fact a vegetable grown with blood or horn is no more containing it in its original form.
Now, it is a fact of life that biodynamics is not classic so far, including with its preparations which are out of the ordinary and it is distinguished from other organic cultivation methods.

Attention you quote with terms that I do not use

[izentrop]

Hello,
Organic farming has been modeled on biodynamics and also allows organic fertilizers of the type: blood flour, wool waste, feather meal, meat meal, bone meal ...

I agree with the other speakers, that boycotting meat because of animal suffering is a choice that is respected.

Now why not create a label "meat from a well-treated animal", because as said previously breeding is often essential for sustainable and balanced agriculture.

[Janic]

Now why not create a label "meat from a well-treated animal", because as said previously breeding is often essential for sustainable and balanced agriculture.

a) It is as if the Nazis had made camps with well treated prisoners before gassing them!
b) animal husbandry is not necessary or even essential for a sustainable and balanced agriculture (which does not mean anything in itself). It is the current agricultural methods which are to be reviewed because the soils have been depleted by intensive farming and the organic matter, brought in from the outside, allows compensatory fertilization. Naturally, there are billions of small organisms that fertilize the soil when humans don't get too involved.
Now, even if it is unfortunate for ethics, this waste exists and is therefore valued as are our industrial or household waste

[izentrop]

Hello,
Always this legendary extremism, archaism and arguments of authority.

b) livestock farming is not necessary or even essential for sustainable and balanced agriculture

In conventional conventional or organic agriculture, with a short-term capitalist vision, when a single man is enough to cultivate 100 HA it is understandable, but if we really want to optimize the areas and if we look around either, this reasoning does not hold.

The integration of agriculture and livestock allows a simultaneous and synergistic intensification of
plant and animal productions meeting the objectives of increasing production,
income of agricultural households and more efficient use of resources. We have these synergies
already mentioned, relate to material flows, nutrient cycles, functioning
biophysics of soils, enhancement of work, management of production factors (equipment and
inputs). Among the poorest, this form of relative intensification has the major advantage of
real autonomy (few inputs to acquire outside). https://www.ocl-journal.org/articles/oc ... -5p253.pdf

In the tropics, it is a matter of survival.

"Development is agriculture and livestock"

Despite the challenges, the African continent has real untapped agricultural potential capable of supporting its economic development. Several countries like Chad have understood this and are directing their economic policies towards sustainable agriculture with the aim of accelerating the growth of the country and succeeding in reducing oil dependence. http://www.sossahel.org/actu/le-develop ... -lelevage/

[Did67]

Organic farming has been modeled on biodynamics and also allows organic fertilizers of the type: blood flour, wool waste, feather meal, meat meal, bone meal ...

I don't think "organic" agriculture was modeled on biodynamics. The "organic" was built in reaction to conventional agriculture. In France, biodynamics was then largely unknown and rather classified in the "sectarian" movements.

In France, the initiatives rather emerged from the movements initiated by the "Lemaire-Bouché" movement on the one hand, "Nature et Progrès" on the other ... These movements, which I encountered a little at the end of the 70s, knew almost everything about biodynamics, confined to the east of France in those years (logical, this spread from Germany and especially Switzerland; the Demeter arque already existed).

The "organic" having decreed that the use of synthetic products is prohibited, had to find other sources, especially for nitrogen fertilization. And so inevitably, one found himself to "recommend" the use of "natural" products derived from animals, rich in proteins, such as those mentioned (the bone meal being rather for phosphorus).

[Janic]

Always this legendary extremism, archaism and arguments of authority.

Ouarf! an extremist who wants to give lessons!

Now why not create a label "meat from a well-treated animal", because as said previously breeding is often essential for sustainable and balanced agriculture.

a) It is as if the Nazis had made camps with well treated prisoners before gassing them!

First woman to sit at the French Academy, Marguerite Yourcenar (1903 / 1987) makes a daring comparison between the animals destined for the slaughterhouse and the victims of Nazi deportations:
"Let's be subversive. Let us revolt against ignorance, cruelty, which, moreover, are so often exercised against man only because got their hands on the beasts. Remember, if we always have to bring everything back to ourselves, that there would be fewer child martyrs if there were fewer animals tortured, fewer sealed cars bringing to death the victims of any dictatorships, if we had not used the wagons where the beasts agonize without food and water while waiting for the slaughterhouse ".

As for the philosopher Élisabeth de Fontenay, she established very early on "a link between the final solution of the Nazis and the industrialization of breeding and slaughter". It must be said that part of his Jewish maternal family died in deportation to Auschwitz.

http://www.vegetari1.net/2016/03/les-ph ... riens.html

In conventional conventional or organic agriculture, with a short-term capitalist vision, when a single man is enough to cultivate 100 HA it is understandable, but if we really want to optimize the areas and if we look around either, this reasoning does not hold.

Do you consider, finally, that an absurd situation should be taken as a reference ?! These huge desert lands that we look around which must be redesigned to bring them to more reasonable dimensions, starting with surrounding them with hedges and trees protecting flora and fauna which will reduce toxic chemicals and increase soil fertility.

[izentrop]

The "organic" having decreed that the use of synthetic products is prohibited

It is also a form of esotericism, since it has no scientific basis.

[gek]

Very particular also his method of sensitive crystallization which is close to Emoto's work on water, (carrying information), and at the same time, by other paths, to dynamic homeopathic dilutions, to cellular memory, to water memory, etc ...

You have just mentioned everything that makes me think that biodynamics is a vast joke for people in lack of esotericism (moon, preparations, homeopathy, memory of water, urine ...) Many posturitas without no beginning of scientific basis, however, these are good practices because as Ahmed says they take great care of the soil and plants.

[Janic]

gek hello

You just cited everything that makes I think that biodynamics is a vast joke for people in lack of esotericism (moon, preparations, homeopathy, memory of water, urine ...) Many posturitas without any beginning of scientific foundation, nevertheless, it is good practice because as Ahmed says they take great care of the soil and plants.

It's our freedom to think what we want to believe. But for know if there is anything other than the necessary fact of taking great care of the soil and plants, it is the farmers concerned and the measurements made on the finished products which testify to more or not than just great care. (what you checked of course!)
Now many systems challenged at some point in history have turned out to be realistic, even on the basis of supposed esotericism.
Esotericism (from the ancient Greek esoteros, "interior") is the set of secret teachings reserved for initiates.
as far as I know there are no secret teachings in biodynamics, but actually requires, like any human activity, an initiation whether for agriculture, masonry, cooking, etc.

[gek]

gek hello

You just cited everything that makes I think that biodynamics is a vast joke for people in lack of esotericism (moon, preparations, homeopathy, memory of water, urine ...) Many posturitas without any beginning of scientific foundation, nevertheless, it is good practice because as Ahmed says they take great care of the soil and plants.

It's our freedom to think what we want to believe. But for know if there is anything other than the necessary fact of taking great care of the soil and plants, it is the farmers concerned and the measurements made on the finished products which testify to more or not than just great care. (what you checked of course!)
Now many systems challenged at some point in history have turned out to be realistic, even on the basis of supposed esotericism.
Esotericism (from the ancient Greek esoteros, "interior") is the set of secret teachings reserved for initiates.
as far as I know there are no secret teachings in biodynamics, but actually requires, like any human activity, an initiation whether for agriculture, masonry, cooking, etc.

Absolutely, everyone does / believes what he wants.

I should have said magic rather than esotericism ...