Garden and agriculture: direct sowing VS plowing

Agriculture and soil. Pollution control, soil remediation, humus and new agricultural techniques.
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by Did67 » 04/05/14, 13:55

dede2002 wrote:Is it really necessary to mince menu?

Or can we cover the ground with twigs cut with pruning shears?


1) I haven't tried!

2) I use branches up to 3 or 3,5 cm in diameter. There, they would be bulky. Because you understood it, there is rotation. There where I (had the clover, the following year I put the BRF. And after having stirred a little during the harvest, I have a ground "enriched" in pieces of wood ... on which I make my plantations delicate (the "small plants" - the big ones, I put them through the BRF) ...

So the branches would be worrying!

3) As said, I used about 50 BRF wheelbarrows this spring. In the pruning shears, I think I would have had cramps!

4) But for a very small part, or a test, why not?
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by Did67 » 04/05/14, 14:26

izentrop wrote: There is the Soltner method, but they no longer give green waste compost in my community of communes.


Soltner is one of the "contributions" in my reflection. When I went in this direction in the summer of 2012, I did not know this latest work by Soltner.

So I started to take pictures of "my" method, with the idea, when I retire, to blog (I don't know how it's done; but even when I retire, I hope still learn!).

And fortuitously, by random research on the internet, I came across this Soltner book, which I acquired ...

It's a very good base, which I recommend!

So my seedlings this year:

- last summer: meadow / mowing ... then later, place two thicknesses of hay (round bales)
- this spring, the hay is packed, partly decomposed:
- I open a furrow with a large kitchen knife (like a butcher's knife) [it is sweet to garden lying in the hay ... dry!]
- I spread with a small manual 3-finger hoe and I dig a little
- I spread
- I cover with commercial compost quite beast; a big bag bought at the supermarket; I did about 60 ml - linear meters - of seedlings with 1 bag / less than 10 euros ... [I also used the soil of the molehills; I do not recommend; it is "dirty" therefore much more raised of weeds]
- you will understand, I leave the hay between these lines

Two "obstacles" encountered:

a) birds, which scratch for worms; I am therefore obliged to go back to "discover" the parts of lines covered! [bitch of birds!]
b) slugs; and there, no fuss, Ferramol [ferrous sulfate; authorized in organic; it is also an excellent "fertilizer": plants need sulfur - an often neglected limiting factor - and need iron - naturally present in ocher-colored soils in the form of oxide; no hesitation except to be a protector of slugs; and except ... the price!]

PS: this method does not go without a bit of philosophy; I want to share with slugs, birds, field mice ... Especially since it doesn't cost me a lot of effort.

I just don't want to share everything! And on the seedlings, no choice! If not, nothing left in one night !!!

On the other hand, last year, I was not bothered more with this ground cover than when I was digging / hoeing. A little antimimace on the edge. There are natural enemies of slugs that unfurl ... On condition, to bear some small damage and to wash salads well! If no slugs, no auxiliaries. So you have to tolerate it. And be a little patient.

The method is a "cyclical" farming method. It is therefore necessary to constantly consider the duration of natural cycles: for such and such a parasite, the auxiliary sets in and multiplies in a few weeks; for others the cycles are annual or multi-annual ... You must therefore be patient!


It is also necessary to "raise" the parasites, in places slightly away from the garden, but not too far: for example aphids. Nasturtiums, roses, elderberries are excellent "breeding areas" for aphids ... where they often settle very early. Leave it ... A few days later we will see ladybugs ... Always let it happen ... The adults eat little ... But they lay eggs and they are the larvae [of the "horrible beasts" that few people recognize !] which in a few days will devour everything ... If you "treat" the aphids first, the ladybugs die ... But it is better to raise them on the edge of the garden!

PS2: my garden is in the middle of .. meadows! So, I have a hell of a lot of slugs and field mice! With lots of groves. So a hell of a lot of birds!

I had the joy of observing this spring a couple of kestrels, undoubtedly attracted by the mowed areas around my garden: an easy hunting ground! With the groves - and a power line nearby - as a perch.

A garden of this type is a "very complex system", which must be learned to observe. [My wife often asks me:" what are you doing? you dream ??? - "No, I observe and I think! Did you see the falcon?" - "What hawk?" - "Over there !" - "Ah yes !)

A bit of philosophy: we too often call "action" what is only agitation! For it to be an action, there must be a meaning!
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by chatelot16 » 04/05/14, 18:26

I know the subject of the shredder well ... rather to make fuel than brf, but the problem is the same and I will open another subject

no need to move what I put here today, it's just to answer the comparison between shredder and shears:

the shears can be more energy efficient to cut intelligently just what you want to cut, rather than turning a brushcutter

but to grind, it requires no intelligence: it is easy to make a machine more productive than the shears

existing garden shredders already have a fairly reasonable energy consumption but it is possible to do much better

continued here
https://www.econologie.com/forums/post272915.html#272915
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by Did67 » 04/05/14, 18:36

The "crusher" I cited is in fact nothing more than a "'continuous cutting rotary shears ", called turbine (very slowly rotating, hence the absence of noise) hence also the suffix TC for" Turbine Cut ".

The "rotor", made of a succession of "knives," cuts the branches against a "hoof", at the same time, the following notches "take" the branch and make it advance by itself before it is cut in limit switch...

The effort, apart from the friction of the twig against the hoof, is quite close to that which a shears would require, I think (I obviously could not verify, but the maximum power being 2 W, I think that it's a good "yield"!) ...

On the other hand, it is not suitable for "laceration" and "chopping" of small rubbish for composting. It is only suitable for twigs ...
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by Did67 » 04/05/14, 22:27

izentrop wrote:
Above all, weeds that grow faster than seedlings ...


The "key", in my opinion: the ground should never be bare. Without light, weed seeds do not germinate.

So everything covered is good, including plants "little harmful to your culture" if it is of sufficient size of course.

I put BRF where I put the tomatoes, but maybe a year when I didn't have any, I would put a creeping clover. Quite so it takes its place, fix the nitrogen and "fuck" the weeds.

In fact, a soil is the object of a race between plants to occupy the place. It is a competition in the soil (for nutrients and water) and above the ground for light (photosynthesis).

So we can "organize" this race so that it is favorable to us: put in place, before the weeds take hold, plants that are not invasive, not perennial, low enough ...

If you can watch the film "The Harvests of the Future" by Marie-Monique Robin, you will see Manfred Wentz, a German farmer who sows plants in which he sows his crops: wheat, spelled, soybeans, beans. After having just 'crushed' the plant which occupied the ground. I visited it twice. Mind-blowing! When in front of what seems to you to resemble a meadow he explains to you that he is going to sow soya in there, without another form of trial, that this one will very quickly dominate the grass to the point that they will hardly do any damage ... Or in front of a field that looks like rapeseed (but which is not - it is a crucifer of which I'm still looking for the French name!) and ditto, he's going to sow beans in there !!! It's been 20 years. Without ever having worked his soil again. Without herbicide of course. Just direct sowing in crushed plants , with a very sophisticated special device: the Ecodyn [see photo on: http://www.ecodyn.fr/]


There it is agriculture. I am giving this as a "meditation". I have not yet "searched" in my garden, except between the rows of raspberries (creeping white clover). But this is not representative.

In any case, keep the simple ideas:

a) the ground should never be bare.
b) bare soil = guaranteed chore! [nature will continue to occupy the smallest cm² of soil; your fight is therefore lost in advance]
c) the war between plants must be organized.

However, I stole the idea of ​​the Alexandrian clover, which I mentioned above.
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by izentrop » 05/05/14, 13:44

Hello,
Thank you did67 for the advice and mainly the permanent cover.
I do not have enough BRF, so this year I tried the cultivation in mounds, putting cover in the furrows. This allows me to walk without packing the ground. The concern is that the cover on the mounds does not hold.
Harvests of the future: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A2yun7F4a20
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by Did67 » 05/05/14, 14:04

Buttes are for me a "weirdness" except in special cases of soils wet and very heavy ...

I find it funny that the proponents of "natural" agriculture have propagated this funny notion. Who builds mounds in nature? Beavers? Plate tectonics ??? I think being natural is first of all to be consistent. But this is only an opinion ... The "fashions" play so many tricks on us. This is still only an opinion!

However, I haven't written it yet:

a) I only walk on the ground if necessary (basically for planting and harvesting!)

b) if it is dry and covered with BRF, no problem; there is no compaction; the BRF acts as a "buffer" (in 10cm thick layers, as I practice).

c) if it is wet, or where there is no BRF, I have a set of pieces of boards, which I move according to my needs ...

There are therefore, in my garden, only a few identified paths. One year is here. The year after there. It is especially so as not to have to make the "grand tour" all the time ...

It's a shame to sacrifice your "mulch" just to "treat" the passages, I think ...

But if you move your paths, you will recover certains beneficial effects (humus, contributions of nutritive elements, mycelia ...) nevertheless. But without optimizing, since you constantly thwart the work of nature ... The "life of the soil" will decompact and you compact.

I advise you to work in the same direction as your "allies", the life of the ground, and not in conflict!

But try. Observations. I do not want to create a new fashion, nor a "method" (other than: think / try / observe / correct, each his method according to his situation). And therefore discuss!
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by Did67 » 05/05/14, 14:09

izentrop wrote:Harvests of the future: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A2yun7F4a20


Goods.

I remind you that this is agriculture and not gardening.

But that's one of the "triggers" for my thinking about hedging with cultivated plants. I had the chance to meet and sympathize with Manfred Wenz, the German farmer (whose contributions are obviously much more "monstrous" than what is only touched on in the film!).

He is an "autodidact", but a remarkable connnisseur in "phytosociology" (how plants behave with each other).

I gave him the idea of ​​the Alexandria clover which I have already successfully implemented since the spring of 2013. But he has a much wider range of plants: camelina, this cruciferous plant which I cannot find the name ... Etc ...
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by Did67 » 05/05/14, 14:13

Did67 wrote:
c) if it is wet, or where there is no BRF, I have a set of pieces of boards, which I move according to my needs ...



Ah, I forgot: for my sowing in the hay-covered part, I worked ..... couché in the hay !!!

Delirium, right ??? Work your garden lying in the hay! And it smells good!

[NB: my neighbor knows me well enough not to have worried too much; in any case, the SAMU did not land to take me to the asylum! But beware !!!]
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by izentrop » 05/05/14, 15:19

I have a rather clay soil, I had already put my strawberries on the hill last year and it had worked well for them.
It was reading "the natural garden" by Jean-Marie Lespinasse that gave me this idea. Better drainage and faster spring warming.
My mounds are only the width of the mounds on each side I'll think about this cover story : Mrgreen:

I suppose that you must spread the hay at the seedling level, as long as the plants have not reached at least the height of the cover. There must be some weeds taking advantage of it;)
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