China prohibits the import of 24 types of waste and creates panic!

Environmental impact of end of life products: plastics, chemicals, vehicles, agri-food marketing. direct recycling and recycling (upcycling or upcycling) and reuse of good items for the trash!
sicetaitsimple
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Re: China prohibits the import of 24 types of waste and created panic!




by sicetaitsimple » 08/02/18, 14:31

Ahmed wrote:@ SicetaitsimpleI do not pretend to change the world, I am quite lucid on this point. Unfortunately, I have no more effective possibility ... but my position is essentially moral.


To have a "moral order" position is quite simple indeed.

But in real life, in France for example, do you think that a position of "moral order" goes with a wave of a magic wand to reduce the volume of waste from 100 to 20 or 30, or even 50? what would already be huge? Me no.

I am even more surprised by one of your previous comments, where after I said that in my opinion this decision by China was "salutary", you answer "salutary, it is far from certain". So if it is far from certain we find another garbage can than China? Or do we take care of our waste a little, reducing it and recycling it ourselves?
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Re: China prohibits the import of 24 types of waste and created panic!




by Ahmed » 08/02/18, 19:10

Reminding me of the importance of the "why" in a society of the "how" seems to me indeed morally important.

As I explained in what followed the quoted portion of my message, the bonanza which consisted in refourgage waste that the state of our economy * did not know how to treat profitably will disappear and, consequently, will increase the charges, which from a very classic and factual point of view will plummet the accounts (and relieve China), so it is not favorable (in the sense that it was presented as a new opportunity for profits). Now, that does not mean at all that I consider that to assume one's way of life is to reject: I only doubt that it is easy in an already precarious situation.
I know it will not change anything in the big systemic direction, of course, but if it resulted in a drastic reduction in packaging, I would be very happy about that. I doubt, however, the extent of the changes that can be made, as the packaging sector is linked to a very dispersed form of organization and heavy logistics. The future will decide.

I'm not talking about the technique ...
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sicetaitsimple
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Re: China prohibits the import of 24 types of waste and created panic!




by sicetaitsimple » 08/02/18, 19:42

Ahmed wrote: Now, that does not mean at all that I consider that assuming one's way of life is to be rejected ..........

........ I know this will not change the main systemic orientation, of course, but if it resulted in a drastic reduction of packaging, I would be very happy ........

I'm not talking about the technique ...


Here are two excerpts of your post on which we can find ourselves. But to do that there is also (of course not) technique.

There is also education, awareness (I think this news on recyclable garbage exports surprised a lot of people, me first) and then kicks in the ass (regulation and incentives / financial penalties).
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Ahmed
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Re: China prohibits the import of 24 types of waste and created panic!




by Ahmed » 08/02/18, 20:26

We have two different explanatory grids *, which does not mean that they never overlap! 8)

When I say that I am not talking about technique, it is because purely technical modifications do not pose, in my opinion, insoluble problems, at least for large categories of waste (the same does not apply to for so-called "dispersed" materials or alloys / composites).

I was also surprised at this news, because if it is not surprisingly functionally, it was impossible to predict that China had already reached this point of saturation.

Regarding your last paragraph, I think that the com 'will "put the package" and make consumers feel guilty with bizarre slogans, like those currently in use, such as "selective sorting", a name that makes you smile (or "development sustainable "!) ...
Coercion will undoubtedly be part of the lot, credibility requires, but beyond this reconfiguration, waste will remain the engine of the economy ... remains to know how these two contradictory constraints will articulate.

* But not opposed ...
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sicetaitsimple
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Re: China prohibits the import of 24 types of waste and created panic!




by sicetaitsimple » 08/02/18, 20:59

Ahmed wrote: and make consumers feel guilty


But it's perfect to make consumers feel guilty! It starts there! When the consumer will be less and less demanding of sophisticated packaging because guilt (even penalized), the distribution will adapt. Certainly, again, not in a day.
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Ahmed
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Re: China prohibits the import of 24 types of waste and created panic!




by Ahmed » 08/02/18, 21:05

Initially, packaging is designed to solve logistical issues and encourage purchase, so not the fact of consumers ... but some second feedback is likely.
I agree that consumers will act in the right direction voluntarily, but a feeling of guilt would be unfair.
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Re: China prohibits the import of 24 types of waste and created panic!




by sicetaitsimple » 08/02/18, 21:21

Ahmed wrote:I agree that consumers will act in the right direction voluntarily, but a feeling of guilt would be unfair.


Inequitable? Know what you want. When the plastic bags free of charge were banned, it was a little moan, today people arrive with their bag (s).
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Re: China prohibits the import of 24 types of waste and created panic!




by Ahmed » 08/02/18, 21:56

This is a small but necessary and not unfair measure: it has only changed habits a little.
Basically, waste (which is not just packaging) is the other side of consumption: what will be the choices? The coercive aspect implies that decisions come from above and are therefore unfair, since they target "others" ... (example: how a restriction on the use of the automobile would hamper those who usually travel by plane? This is what we may soon be confronted with).
The shift towards an inevitable post-consumer society will easily evolve in the sense of the ease, which is that of authoritarianism, a form of government that accords perfectly with oligarchism.

* As freedom and consumption are necessarily associated, well beyond mere appearances.
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Re: China prohibits the import of 24 types of waste and created panic!




by sicetaitsimple » 08/02/18, 23:14

Perhaps, but here we are talking about the subject of our diverse and varied waste exports to China.

By mixing up all the problems and saying that "it comes from the top", there is indeed little chance of moving forward.
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Re: China prohibits the import of 24 types of waste and created panic!




by Ahmed » 09/02/18, 18:29

There is the risk of mixing problems, as there is the one of considering each element of the chain as separate and dealing with the reduction of waste without establishing the link with their mode of production ...
By a curious paradox, it is by the incapacity (temporary, but it nevertheless lasted a good time) of the nature to eliminate the waste that we are today in capacity to produce so much, without having realized the subsequent natural evolution ... : Wink:
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