China prohibits the import of 24 types of waste and creates panic!

[Ahmed]

What is especially remarkable in the article cited, is that the very existence of waste is never questioned, only the alternative is presented between "refourguer" elsewhere or to live with it (and hope to profit from it). ) ...
The analogy of the petri dish suggests that the microorganisms, victims of their success, finally perish for lack of nutrients, but they are also victims of the accumulation of their metabolic waste.
The Chinese are in this situation which is not easily soluble: they have an imperative need for raw material, but extracting it from waste is only an interim solution, because this option generates in turn mountains of waste (in the broad sense) that are no longer acceptable, except to accept that the country is transmuted in trash ... Clearly, the low direct cost of waste loses its opportunity status when the mass treated causes the accumulation of exorbitant negative externalities.
The Chinese model must reorganize into a structure that is less and less favorable to its initial project and this evolution was contained in the initial assumptions of this project. Wanting to copy and evolve according to Western economic criteria, it faces the full brunt of their contradictions. This brings confirmation of the local character, in time and space, of these criteria.

[sicetaitsimple]

The Chinese model must reorganize into a structure that is less and less favorable to its initial project and this evolution was contained in the initial assumptions of this project. Wanting to copy and evolve according to Western economic criteria, it faces the full brunt of their contradictions. This brings confirmation of the local character, in time and space, of these criteria.

I do not wish to start a debate on the "Chinese model", behind our small computer and whatever our intellectual fulgurance and our vision of the future we must remain a little modest. 1,4 billion inhabitants to "manage" is not nothing. Especially since they have needs, or desires, but that's not my subject.

On the other hand, I find it very beneficial that we (the so-called developed countries) refer to our waste problems. Because beyond certain short-term disturbances, it will inevitably lead us (the so-called developed countries) to reconsider this waste "economy", and as it will become more and more expensive, it will encourage us to limit its production and to better recycle them.

It's not going to be 1 or 2 years, that's for sure.

The "western" model of the past 50 years is so expensive that it can only make progress. But you have to push it, step by step. The younger generations, who will be in charge in a few years, I think have understood it, even behind their Smartphone.

[Ahmed]

Healthy, it is far from certain: if our "expensive" model and the waste that goes with it are imposed, it is not by chance and, apart from a few easy measures (which are starting to be implemented) , this massive injection of negative externalities will seal the accounts and quickly show their limits. Without the formidable exterior plunder and the rejection of our inconsistent acts on others, it will be less "glamorous"!

The fact that China is very populous only plays (if I may say so!) On the amplifying effect of its initial choices, which are to copy the Western “development” model. Japan had tried it, on a more modest demographic scale, with the evolution that we can see ...

[sicetaitsimple]

It is not worth going further, dialogue is impossible (except on the wire "the vegetable garden of the lazy").

In all of your interventions, very well written but often incomprehensible to ordinary people, I only see one thing that stands out systematically: you would like to see the world "collapse" before you die, in order to be able to die saying "I said so".

I am not in this logic, and I hope to die in a better world, because "my children", but not only mine, will have made of them something perhaps not perfect, but more balanced and in progress.

No need to answer, it is a problem of vision, and hope in humanity.

Hello.

[Ahmed]

You seriously misunderstand my motivations: I do not wish a collapse in any way and to be wrong on this point would be my greatest desire *: that is what I seek by these warnings. I am thinking of producing well-reasoned messages that will encourage (?) Substantial change, without much belief, but is it necessary?
What I find desperate is this potential ability to bring out a liveable world and persevere nevertheless in its destruction.
It is a matter of realism that requires the analysis of causes and is not satisfied with a moral position, such as optimism or a vague hope.
Do you really believe that a positive vision or faith is enough?

* I mean that if sufficient fixes were applied, it would invalidate the collapse, but not my analysis, quite the contrary!

[sicetaitsimple]

that's what I'm looking for by these warnings.

Do you realize that "your warnings" may be read by 20 people on this? forum (including me) and maybe 10 (or 5, or 15) adhere to it? Will it change the world?

The object of a forum it seems to me to dialogue, to exchange ideas, data. Not to spread all his deep convictions or his apocalyptic vision of the future.

If we talk about the thickness of hay or the training of tomatoes on "the vegetable garden of the lazy", we share.

If you "spin" with Janic and Sen-no-sen on some dedicated wires, no problem, you are between you and it makes your neurons work, but the others do not care.

Less 10 or 20% waste in France in 5 years, it's much less glamorous I grant you, but that's how the world will advance.

[Christophe]

What is especially remarkable in the article cited, is that the very existence of waste is never questioned, only the alternative is presented between "refourguer" elsewhere or to live with it (and hope to profit from it). ) ...

If you're talking about my article, I think you read between the lines or too fast ... I'm talking about reduce to the source and to better value them here ... especially in France where we burn a lot too much!

Especially in France, where "energy recovery", including incineration, has been widely favored for decades compared to our direct European neighbors (Belgium, Germany, Switzerland ...). Of course, we should also work at the source: that is to say to try to reduce the volume of waste!

[Ahmed]

@ SicetaitsimpleI do not pretend to change the world, I am quite lucid on this point. Unfortunately, I have no more effective possibility ... but my position is essentially moral.
If a small reduction in waste happens (which is quite likely), I will welcome it, but that will not change the general direction of current goals: it is only an adjustment to not give up. The danger is precisely contained in this refusal of a vision of the future, reduced to means which are, in themselves, their own ends.

Yes, ChristopheI have noted this formula. I am convinced of your sincerity, but it is an obligatory argument of this kind of text, a kind of moral additive never followed by notable effects since in contradiction with the pursued ends. How could it be remedied a waste that is inherent in the functioning of the economy, without giving up the economy?

[Christophe]

Yes, ChristopheI have noted this formula. I am convinced of your sincerity, but it is an obligatory argument of this kind of text, a kind of moral additive never followed by notable effects since in contradiction with the pursued ends. How could it be remedied a waste that is inherent in the functioning of the economy, without giving up the economy?

Vote for me and we'll see if it's not followed by noticeable effects!

[Ahmed]

I do not want you to die!
(This is a noticeable effect, no?)