Recovery of green waste in short circuit

Environmental impact of end of life products: plastics, chemicals, vehicles, agri-food marketing. direct recycling and recycling (upcycling or upcycling) and reuse of good items for the trash!
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Evaluation
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Re: Recovery of green waste in short circuit




by Evaluation » 18/04/20, 01:00

sicetaitsimple wrote:If chopping branches was a naturally "remunerative" activity in France, I think that it would be known and that pruners and landscapers would be very happy. This is not the case.

Because we only consider this step alone, and not the whole chain
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Re: Recovery of green waste in short circuit




by Did67 » 18/04/20, 08:22

I discover - in general, I come to econology via alert messages in my mailbox; so directly on my usual sons, without going through the starting box ...

There seems to me to be a very interesting agronomic aspect in this idea of ​​a project: replacing a semi-waste (compost), an authentic total agronomic recovery of waste (individual or collective) [in other words: nourishing a living soil with biomass with which we feed "wankers" producing non-valued heat in a heap - that's composting].

Even if composting has been an advance in terms of "treatment" of organic waste, compared to landfilling or low recovery by combustion, the positive impact of the input of fresh organic matter, not composted, on a market gardening system is today obvious ... I am not "autonomist" - those who read me elsewhere know it -, but on the contrary, we must not rule out initiatives that can go in the direction of short circuits - even very short -: vegetables - waste - vegetables ...

So for me, agronomically, the question is: for how long will our societies be able to afford the luxury of sending most of the energy contained in a biomass wrongly called "waste" into the air. we better call it "excellent food for organisms capable of working the soil for us and feeding our vegetables" ???

Afterwards, as in any project which is not "classic", everything remains to be imagined, to be evaluated. Including the nature and quantities of biomass. Including how to get a large audience to subscribe, to guarantee quality sorting. Including "who does what?". Including, at the end: "who pays what?" ...

Being a former member of a French NGO, I am still amazed to what extent we find (well we found!) Normal that THE solution to famine in the Sahel was the introduction of "market gardening perimeters" (there have been some projects, and appeals for donations, and mobilized energies!), which is anything but simple in local conditions, and to what extent, with us, a small project, with all the means we have and the level of education, seems problematic. To the point of seeming "impossible".

"They didn't know it was impossible, so they did!" (Mark Twain). This is in my powerpoint and in all my conferences ...

Of course, I support this reflection. Not necessarily always here publicly, given certain reactions (imports of "debates" from elsewhere - I put in quotation marks: sometimes arguments of poorly finished teens that tire me or battle of egos).

By chance I was consulted on two or three projects of "the same nature" - a mayor who would like to do better than a simple shared garden (located by chance next to a waste reception center), a group of citizens who 'questions in the vein of the post-Covid ... That delights me.

Because seems to me an excellent alternative to cream pies like "urban farm" stuffed with LEDs and fed with hydroponic solutions - a dead end in which armies of the blind will be shattered!
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Re: Recovery of green waste in short circuit




by Did67 » 18/04/20, 08:29

I forgot an essential thing: obviously, the "project" will become what the participants want to make of it.

I fought for "so-called participatory approaches" - I even wrote texts to "demonstrate" that this term was "limited". Because who says "participation", says that it was conceived elsewhere. I have a good idea - do you want to "participate"? And 6 months later, who is the slave ???

So it is about "co-constructing" that it is. Which means that at the beginning, we only have a canvas. On which the people involved will embroider their canvas!

This will necessarily bring about diverging views, tensions ...

This takes longer than entrusting the design to "specialists".

But it increases the chances of having something that works.

The "specialists" almost always end up with beautiful pink elephants - like broken down combine harvesters in the heart of the Sahel!
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Re: Recovery of green waste in short circuit




by Ahmed » 18/04/20, 14:40

Did, I sent you an MP (21/03/20) to warn you about this project, which seemed normal to me given our previous discussions and what you taught me, in a number of agronomic details that remained obscure for me. So this project owes you a lot, even if it also results from, on the one hand, a long series of personal experiences (which allowed me to immediately understand the interest of the lazy vegetable garden and to encourage you to face to the disbelief of the other members of the forum), on the other hand of the old and fortuitous demand of a community of commune confronted above all with questions of costs and not very receptive to the practical and agronomic aspects.
I think that, in accordance with my expectations, you understand well the stakes and the difficulties of my project, its "heretical" character vis-à-vis prejudices firmly established with those very people who would seem the best disposed towards more approaches. sustainable use of our gardens. This heretical character is obviously not in accordance with my own perception, since it is a logical step based on certain agronomic bases.
Concerning the costs, they mainly concern those of grinding and what accompanies it; the other position being that of communication which is obviously essential for the success of the project as well as the understanding of all the possibilities that this approach allows, in particular, as you mention, the ultra-short circuit which avoids the passage to the box grinder. All that will come under this last post will be mainly the case of volunteers (including me, of course), so an amount that will be limited to the edition of newsletters, educational brochures, perhaps video * and all that will prove useful for its purposes.

* Although unwilling to use video, recent experience and the inescapable aspect of this mode of communication today incline me to use it to popularize this essay.
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Re: Recovery of green waste in short circuit




by Did67 » 18/04/20, 18:19

Yes I am sorry...

I have several things pending ... Articles to write ... And the note you asked me ...

But I fully support ... within the limits of my availability.

I put a lot of order in the vegetable garden, after a long absence, a grove to ripe, etc ...
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Re: Recovery of green waste in short circuit




by Ahmed » 18/04/20, 20:52

Don't worry, I fully understand that you can't do everything at once. Furthermore, in the present circumstances, time seems to have slowed considerably ... 8)
The approach of the lazy garden and mine are indeed in phase, even if the point of view and the angle of attack is different, but complementary.
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Re: Recovery of green waste in short circuit




by Did67 » 19/04/20, 08:41

That's all the interest!

Success, with "something" new, and which can be perceived as heretical, so much later 20 years [because we forget it, it will have taken time, resources - brochures, associations, meetings, popularization ... ] composting is in people's minds, will be based on successful social engineering.

It’s not that simple!
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Re: Recovery of green waste in short circuit




by Ahmed » 19/04/20, 11:00

It is true that it took some time to install this global belief, I say global, because in the details, as you have also noticed, these "composters" are very often foul rots. I remember, during an exhibition in my town, an enthusiastic city councilor wanted to share his interest in this process with me and, in front of my reservations, listened to me without answering anything, a little as if I had announced to him that I wanted reincarnate as a goldfish!
My new neighbor who is happy to give me his branches started to mow his lawn and heaped it not far from his fence, on my side: I offered to transfer it also to my home, but he told me explained that he was keeping it for one of his buddies who has rabbits. I doubt that he has the slightest knowledge of these animals, because he thinks of making them their food or simply their litter, considering the smell of ammonia which is released, the rabbits will make a funny face!
To reverse the trend, one of the avenues to explore would be, as you also do, to involve school children; I do not know for the moment if, in practice, it is easy to implement or not in the municipality in question ... Another track would be to locate one (or more!) gardener "precursor" and sufficiently credible who would serve to initiate this reorientation.
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Re: Recovery of green waste in short circuit




by Did67 » 19/04/20, 11:58

Me, I was done the blow, in an "organic" fair, to put myself next to one of these organizations half-association, half-comm box whose "business" is the promotion of composting ... Because it has become a business for many "eco-advisers".

As I am often invited on the budget of comm comm, it is sure that sometimes it "gets stuck"!

There are also very often, in my confs, responsible people in comms. Enthusiastic, at the end, they ask me if I agree to intervene for the structure - I always say yes! But it is exceptional that this succeeds (one of the notable exceptions was the "Zero waste" party of the SMICVAL in St Denis de Pile, where I made two conf, two days in a row ...).
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Re: Recovery of green waste in short circuit




by Ahmed » 19/04/20, 13:52

It is for these reasons that I am happy to start with a small town where I will have no institutional brakes (psychological, yes!) And where I can calmly develop a solid methodology before thinking bigger.
I also want to integrate an ecological association as soon as possible, in order to prepare the most active people "from the inside"; anyway, it's part of communication strategies: to be credible, you have to be known and to be known, you have to "network" (not really my thing, but I will do with: you have to know what you want ...). 8)
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