Cheap seed pot

[highfly-addict]

...
Besides, you make your seeds yourself with well "fixed" races.
When you hybridize hybrids and you fix the race obtained what happens ??? we keep saying that there are fixed races;)?
...

Establish a new tomato cultivar? It's a full-time professional job! I just try to "maintain" those that I cultivate, it is already not so bad I think!

[Ahmed]

On the other hand, I think we can, if we really want to, select from all areas ...

hightflyaddict, it is already very difficult to select * on 2 or 3 criteria, so multiplying them would not only be long, but impossible!
It is also a logical impossibility since, on the one hand to select is to choose, on the other hand certain criteria are excluded from each other (ex .: a fruit which supports well the shocks of handling cannot be tender ).

* Selecting means raising a large population of the target species and eliminating those who do not meet the criteria sought, then crossing the selected subjects until the selector is satisfied (or tired, LOL!).
In practice this means that you have to practice compromises: I want a rose that lasts in a vase, with a pleasant color and that smells good ... it's already showing optimism, but I wouldn't an optimal form of petal winding.
It is, in fact, a question of probability: the 4 criteria can be met after many recombinations, but not at the optimum for everyone.

[highfly-addict]

Ahmed, I am aware of the selection process, and I am well aware that it takes a very long time!

However, selecting on two or three criteria (it seems to me very little already), is not that difficult, I do it in my garden!

During the domestication of cereals, for example, the number of criteria was undoubtedly very important, without even the "breeders" of the time being aware of it. They did, however, and rather quickly if I believe the latest publications on the subject!

Obviously, if we are looking for tenderness AND resistance to shocks, we are off to a bad start ... We have to deal with reality anyway!

Moreover, to clarify, I am speaking of course only of plants for which sexual multiplication is obligatory, which is not the case with roses including "varieties" (in botany, it would be better to speak of "forms" ) are propagated vegetatively (cutting or meristem).
In this case it is much simpler: a single individual who meets the criteria is sufficient.

[Ahmed]

The vegetative route is indeed an easy solution, as you know; this is why it is so widespread: cuttings (from stems, roots, leaves), layers, suckers, grafts ...

It also has the immense advantage of immediately fixing the variety securely.
Of course, each advantage has drawbacks: the clones thus obtained, when they are multiplied too large, are much more sensitive to external aggressions.

In fact, as with selection, you can't have everything at once!

[bidouille23]

Hello, and thank you I did not know the expression of "vegetative way" very beautiful term which well what it means .

Hightfly, you speak of cereals very well as an example, how many have not mutated and doubled their number of chromosomes,, if I am not mistaken there is buckwheat, little spelled, and maybe oats but for l oats I'm not sure.
We can double the chromosomes with the action of colchicine (juice of the colchicus bulb, beware of deadly poison for humans), and also by voluntary or accidental hybridization.
Balance for wheat for example it is no longer assimilated by the body and even become a poison.

As you say poor world.

That said all is not lost let's continue the action of resistance and seed production.

I can send some purple seeds if that tells someone;), there will be just the stamp to pay .

Otherwise for the seeds my aunt found a nice thing, the seeds to germinate in organic stores;), there is a little choice and much cheaper than in the seed trade;).

Hightfly said:
"You also make your seeds yourself with well" fixed "races.
When you hybridize hybrids and you fix the race obtained what happens ??? we keep saying that there are fixed races;)?
...


Establish a new tomato cultivar? It's a full-time professional job! I just try to "maintain" those I cultivate, it's already not so bad I think! "

I was actually asking you what you called a fixed breed, let's take the example of the terer charlotte apple.
It’s a hybrid of chords, so if you’re making a new hybrid from the charlotte, what happens, once fixed, did you talk about a new variety? and then went to hybridize again and redo a new variety in order to keep the taxes on the production of semen of this variety developed by INRA for example ??
What I wonder is when does it stop ???
normally never in view of the system if i am not mistaken.
If in addition the selection criteria dse are on the form and not the background then where are we going ???

Either I would stick to the vegetative path which seems to me to be the healthiest if we used old breeds.

thanks again to you for these explanations

see you

[Ahmed]

Bidouille23 I don't understand your last paragraph on hybrids "fixed" or not, could you be clearer?

[highfly-addict]

If I may say so, the term "variety", unfortunately used in all sauces, has seen its botanical meaning distorted.

A "variety" (a cultivar) of roses or potatoes is therefore in reality only one individual, cloned on demand. This individual is a hybrid, it has nothing "fixed", and if we pollinate it and sow the seeds, we have only a tiny chance of recovering all the characteristics of the mother plant.

In addition, generally one seeks to clone resistant individuals, less susceptible to diseases.
The paradox and the limit of this way of doing things is the genetic homogeneity of these clones: if they are in large numbers, there is more chance that one of them will cross a germ which is nevertheless pathogenic and all of a sudden the advantage of selection is reduced to nothing: the entire population of clones is now "offered" to this germ.

Even if we know the limits of the practice, we apply it (for the moment) successfully on many plants, I am thinking in particular of poplars, whose genetic material of a single individual covers thousands of hectares.

[bidouille23]

re,

i will try to be clearer not won .

I may also be confusing the plant pathway with the f1 hybrids so I am counting on you to allow me to understand better. .

so I'll take the more telling Bf 15 for the example actually:


Bf15 = crossing of Belle de Fontenay and Flava.

therefore it is a variety fixed since 1947.
Now if we take:

Pompadour = born in 1992 from a cross between Roseval and BF 15

So the pompadour will soon transform Ms. X because crossed with another variety and so on without end all that to be able to keep the rights on the creation of the variety to earn money what.

So my question is: where did we stop at the crossings ???
And is there really a reason to stop considering the system which pushes to fire these same varieties constantly crossed.
Knowing that we no longer look at the nutritious side which is the basis or are we going ??

So do I confuse;) crossbreeding and hybrid ?? maybe it is.

am i clearer ??


see you

[highfly-addict]

I try an answer.

If we cross a Belle de Fontenay with a Flava, we do it by sexual reproduction (seeds what!). And we get a lot of individuals with different characters, one of which can be close to BF15.

When we have spotted the interesting individual (probably the fifteenth ...), we clone it, with the potatoes it's easy, just replant the tubers! Vegetative reproduction.

There is nothing wrong with crossing potatoes and thus increasing genetic diversity. What is "wrong" is bringing tasteless but productive cultivars to the market, less nutritious but "pretty". And it's even worse to buy them with your eyes closed!

[Ahmed]

I fully agree with the first part of your intervention: these details are judicious.

When you write:

if they are in large numbers, there is a greater chance that one of them will cross a germ that is still pathogenic and all of a sudden the advantage of selection is reduced to nothing: the entire population of clones is now "offered" to this germ.

it does not seem entirely correct to me.
This is how it goes in my opinion (maybe that is what you meant): the populations of predators are constantly mutating; if, among these mutants is an individual well adapted to any clone *, he will benefit from an adaptive advantage insofar as he finds in front of him many representatives of this clone (abundant source of food); it can therefore multiply intensively and become invasive.

For example: spraying "round-up ready" corn fields, we select weeds resistant to this weedkiller.

In fact, genetic heterogeneity is a great protection against this phenomenon, hence the advantage of sexual reproduction (there are others, LOL!).

Regarding poplars I do not fully share your relative optimism (for the moment ... successfully), nor the following clarification: "... the genetic material of a single individual covers thousands of hectares"

Sanitary disasters have already resulted from this practice in the recent past and this kind of excess is, as far as possible, avoided today: several clones are used (probably not enough, but the selection is difficult) in order to have sufficient genetic diversity.
In addition, it is rare that the same clone can adapt on heterogeneous grounds.

* during the selection, the clones sensitive to the main pathogens are eliminated, so there remains only the possibility of a mutation of a major or secondary pathogen, which has suddenly become important.