Cheap seed pot

Environmental impact of end of life products: plastics, chemicals, vehicles, agri-food marketing. direct recycling and recycling (upcycling or upcycling) and reuse of good items for the trash!
bidouille23
Grand Econologue
Grand Econologue
posts: 1155
Registration: 21/06/09, 01:02
Location: Britain BZH powaaa
x 2




by bidouille23 » 21/04/11, 22:47

bonsoir,

Alain "In short, your conclusion is that you are a better taster than me!" This is your conclusion, mine is that everything is at best in the best of all possible worlds;).

I tilted on your pitch start with YIELD.

that's all, from the cuttings I'm from home with you it's rather natural, have grafted a good part of the fruit trees so that it gives and I see nothing to say, when I speak of hybrid actually I'm talking about too fast selection of plants and too fast crossing, on selection criteria such as yield (probably because of our exchange), actually I am probably not clear enough in my explanations but I do not want to go through lead pellets either;).

On the garden side I buy my fruit and vegetables from producers next to my home, because I am in a re-start of the garden, and I no longer think of producing only ais to make a place of pleasure and morning stroll in a rich and varied space, where fruit and vegetable flowers live together helping each other.
Why this choice, because the production next door is completely natural and at a price equivalent to that of the super market, and because I think that I eat without abuse (I do not mean anything), and therefore that the expense n 'is not superior to the super market, and in view of real benefits for health I would say that it is even much cheaper.

So for the photos I can show you my garden drawing in creation, not big but which will grow in time because actually I am lucky to have a bit of land available, but all the land is also made to be left as such for nature and life.

In short the hydro is a solution if it is well done, I compare the incomparable in fact it is especially that much for me.

I believe that this is an endless discussion, I am sure of it, I understand your point of view and I respect it as well as the choice made by certain producer if this one is motivated by intentions other than money. I also understand your choice of making beef stuff (but until you try all the other breeds you can't say it's the best;)), and I respect it, and if I'm stubborn well it does not matter, and everything you want besides I say yes of course :) .
So you are right and there is only your reason which is worth, it is well for that that the French wine goes badly arff damage for us, this says the crisis of the wine here have not heard too much spoken have heard of a serious crisis, my supplier at the wholesale price tell me that things are going pretty well have a good years?
Large producers send more wine to you, that's the crisis, there are no more exports and excess production, that's the crisis ??? I don't understand it, because that's normal :) it is a reasoned agriculture, or one that becomes force again so much the better, don't worry for us the wine will always have some, at worst there are Alsatians next to it;) mmm.

yes I am not greenhouse for the moment so no tomatoes, not wanting to fight with mildew, I will wait until next year, it lets laugh for the moment I agree ( it is useful at least to something;)), but I can already tell you that they will be multicolored and that they will finish ripening :), and will be chosen according to the desires of the moment.

So here it is another philosophy of the thing, good night and good tomato;).

see you
0 x
Alain G
Econologue expert
Econologue expert
posts: 3044
Registration: 03/10/08, 04:24
x 3




by Alain G » 21/04/11, 23:15

It's on France 24:


http://observers.france24.com/fr/conten ... -marketing



French wines losing ground, the fault of marketing

France has moved from first to third place among wine exporting countries, behind Italy and Spain. A plunge that could be further accentuated with the emergence of large producers, such as India, China or Argentina. According to our Observer, the poor French results are primarily the consequence of a poor marketing strategy.
Contributors

Benoît Pà © try
"The New World is teaching the Old Continent a lesson in marketing"

Benoît Pétry, 24, studies oenology at the University of Adelaide, Australia.

French wines are less and less appreciated in the world, while the number of countries which produce them - as well as the world production - does not stop increasing (experts estimate that the world production of wine will increase by 4% between 2008 and 2012). Who would have thought that India, China and Argentina are planting more and more vines and increasing their wine production, while in France winegrowers receive aid to tear off their feet? France is the only country in the European Union whose national vineyard has seriously diminished in recent years.

Why are New World countries (Chile, Argentina, Australia, etc.) exporting more and more wine? Why their market shares have continued to grow at the expense of the countries of the Old Continent. ?

The New World is gaining market share thanks to its demand marketing. Its world-renowned wine companies (Constellation, Foster's Group, Hardys, etc.) are capable of investing colossal sums of money in their marketing. In addition, these companies rely on continuous distribution and constant quality of their wines, year after year.

Marketing is the best weapon of New World wine producers. They notably succeeded in distinguishing themselves by the labeling of their bottles. They have an approach intended to help the consumer to understand this complicated product that is wine, by specifying in particular the grape varieties used during winemaking. You don't have to be an expert to know what you're going to drink.

Unlike the French system of Designations of Origin (AOC), the New World is not constrained by rigid regulations. Unlike France, they do not use the concept of terroir (which combines data as diverse as the climate, the soil and the hours of sunshine). Australian winemakers communicate on the grape varieties used during winemaking and the region where the grape varieties are produced (see photos below). In France, experts speak more of the terroir as if it were the most important factor in giving aromas to wine.

Obviously, no one can deny that the terroir plays a big role in the taste and aromas of wine. But it is the grape variety which is the key factor, the terroir being more the mark of the personality of the wine. On the same vineyard, using more Merlot or more Cabernet Sauvignon will change the aromas and taste qualities of the wine.

The AOC system guarantees the quality of the wines by obliging the winegrowers to respect a lower yield per hectare, a fixed alcohol content, irrigation procedures, but also the exclusive use of 'noble' grape varieties. So why do French producers refrain from indicating the grape varieties on the front label of the bottle?

As Xavier de Eizaguirre, president of Vinexpo, points out, with almost 500 AOCs, French wines are perceived as complicated and difficult to understand. AOCs - for example Châteauneuf-du-Pape - allow winegrowers to grow up to 12 different grape varieties. Who, apart from an expert, can remember the grape varieties authorized for each of the 500 AOCs? French winegrowers practice supply marketing, which does not take demand into account, that is to say what the consumer understands.

The New World is teaching the Old Continent a lesson in marketing. Wine is a complex product. The wine-growing region, the grape varieties, the winegrower, the estate, and even the style of the wine are all characteristics that consumers must remember. It is therefore necessary to provide the consumer with as much information as possible. A label should help him, rather than make him indecisive and stressed out at the time of purchase. "
0 x
Stepping behind sometimes can strengthen friendship.
Criticism is good if added to some compliments.
Alain
bidouille23
Grand Econologue
Grand Econologue
posts: 1155
Registration: 21/06/09, 01:02
Location: Britain BZH powaaa
x 2




by bidouille23 » 22/04/11, 10:28

Bonjour,

"Who would have thought that India, China and Argentina are planting more and more vines and increasing their wine production, while in France the winegrowers receive aid to tear off their feet? France is the only country of the European Union, whose national vineyard has seriously diminished in recent years. "

Alain you do not have the impression that if we have given premiums for grubbing up it is not calculated, as for the apple trees in Brittany : Evil: .

At the same time that international trade no longer works, this does not mean that we no longer make good wine in sufficient quantity for us;).

Now look at this and you will understand a little more what I mean :)

http://cdurable.info/Solutions-locales- ... ,2332.html

We are not talking about the same world Alain, in mine the excessive production and export of non-vital foodstuffs or the products that we can produce on the spot, should not cross thousands of kilometers.
In short, look at what is sustainable agriculture without pesticides and without chemical fertilizers (from the petrochemical industry, and chemical warfare, like the agent orange for example which gave us the superb roundup, super ouaaa).

This is all a rotten system and you are showing me that you are right by giving me examples from the problem I am talking about.

Continue to close your eyes and ears and go down with yourself to know if you are right but more with me I lost enough time.

Yes, I forgot, I was a little quick yesterday because I was tired about hybrids:

http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hybride

dixit "The hybrids often have a rather low fertility, due to the fact that the chromosomes have difficulty in pairing during meiosis.

Some stable animal hybrids can however reproduce by their seeds (dromedary / Bactrian camel) but most often they are sterile.

In plants, hybrids can be reproduced by vegetative propagation (cuttings or grafting). "

even on wiki he says it;), so check if your tomatoes are hybrid or grafted it's not the same.
Hear what you want, and between us the old continent still has some old farmer who uses the old method of cultivation and who have very very good results, and between us what do you think the minister, the town hall of paris, lyon etc, and a lot of great restaurants in your opinion what it orders as seeds ????
Old race bought from kokopeli and you think they stopped trying once, well no it continues and no longer want to return to hybrids.
Who among us are made to sell fertilizers and pesticides and enslave the obligation to buy semen at the end.

Example with corn from the south of France /

1) have traditional southern corn which requires very very little water

2) the industry motivates (and removes the usable seed book), the farmers planted maize said to be more productive (economic motivation)

3) the corn grows but needs a lot of water, gave water and pesticides and fertilizers that are going well (the industry does it)

4) Farmers find themselves riddled with debts and without reproducible seeds at home, and with a big problem of growth due to the amount of water needed

5) Montsanto for example tell them:
problem of water consumption no problem we are going to make you a modified plant that does not require a lot of water to grow but still as much fertilizer and pesticide of course.

6) the circle is complete

7) the farmer gets sick with pesticides it also famiais sometimes, but it does not matter because the pharmaceutical industry is there to help them (to die of course).

Review The industry is eating everything, look at what is happening in Africa and South America, 1/3 of Uruguay is owned by pension funds, and foreigners preventing hundreds and hundreds of small farmer to live and also destroy bio diversity and destroy the soil with their chemical pollutants.

In short Alain looks further than the tip of your nose and stop believing that you are right at all times.

Hybrid = Hybrid

In short I will not answer anymore it is an endless discussion end point stay with your certainties as well as me with mine, life will not stop but that of the man seen how it left ben may have said that 'it has lead in the wing, it may be time to do something each on its own scale, the consumer's choice of purchase can make the difference (to be a consumer-actor if you prefer and not a sheep) .

look at the report which I put a link to you above you will see a little clearer I think.

see you
0 x
Alain G
Econologue expert
Econologue expert
posts: 3044
Registration: 03/10/08, 04:24
x 3




by Alain G » 22/04/11, 15:25

hack

I had also seen a documentary on TV on vineyards that went in the same direction!


Oddly the problem of the death of bees is not felt here but more in Europe!


I don't have time this morning to see your link but I would do more and give you my comments!


Quebec does not have the same customs as the rest of Canada and especially the USA, we are like the Gaulois before the Romans : Mrgreen: , in short we are probably the most green in North America

For example 2,4-Dichlorophenoxyacetic acid (Killex) is prohibited from sale here in Quebec, we are probably the only place in the world where it is prohibited!

It's not that I want to be right about you but as you say we live in another world and you would benefit from knowing a little more about Quebec culture because I think you compare us a little too much to the American iceberg lettuce eater when we can hardly find it here!

I do not know what makes you think that I do not agree with you on the products made on a large scale because I did not mention being in favor of these in any of my comments, well maybe I do not I haven't mentioned it but I'm totally against the same things as you on over-production with pesticides and insecticides, but where you seem to hang it is on the fact that I say that we can make a good product without these ... sea icids ... because yes we do it and it tastes good too!

In your comments we can see that you do not want to admit that it is possible because you have not seen it but and that leads you to the limit of insulting me, which is a shame because I like you , maybe our friends Forhorse helped you on this point by accusing me of quoting passages from Wiki when it is completely false and he has the wrong character, I hope your comments such as " In short Alain looks beyond the tip of your nose and stop believing that you are right at all times. "Will stop because they are very derogatory, I did not comment on the ball burner because I only did 'a brief experience but on tomatoes I have pictures and results when you just don't!

Cordially!
0 x
Stepping behind sometimes can strengthen friendship.

Criticism is good if added to some compliments.

Alain
User avatar
gegyx
Econologue expert
Econologue expert
posts: 6931
Registration: 21/01/05, 11:59
x 2870




by gegyx » 22/04/11, 18:43

Attempt to mediate ...

Do hydroponics, with very liquid mud, this is called silt?

The Egyptians knew how to do : Cheesy:
0 x
User avatar
hic
Grand Econologue
Grand Econologue
posts: 995
Registration: 04/04/08, 19:50
x 5




by hic » 22/04/11, 19:29

Alain G wrote:hack

I had also seen a documentary on TV on vineyards that went in the same direction!


Oddly the problem of the death of bees is not felt here but more in Europe!


I don't have time this morning to see your link but I would do more and give you my comments!


Quebec does not have the same customs as the rest of Canada and especially the USA, we are like the Gaulois before the Romans : Mrgreen: , in short we are probably the most green in North America

Cordially!


hi Alain G

what you tell us about your Canadian tomatoes,

It would seem that in France we have the same problems as the Americans,

therefore ,
the french would do well to buy canadian tomatoes lol

a priori a hybrid plant is not a problem and should function normally.

but with us hybrid, it's suspect!

What you say must be delivered in the context of French Canada

more reasonable!
0 x
"Let food be thy medicine and thy medicine be thy food" Hippocrates
"Everything has a price has no value" Nietzche
Torture for Dummies
Forbid to express the idea that the field is acceleration (magnetic and gravitational)
And you get your patent mental torture option executioner successfully
User avatar
highfly-addict
Grand Econologue
Grand Econologue
posts: 757
Registration: 05/03/08, 12:07
Location: Pyrenees, 43 years
x 7




by highfly-addict » 23/04/11, 01:19

No special opinion on Quebec tomatoes ... But on the advantages and disadvantages of hybrids if!

To put it simply, a stable tomato variety will give seeds that can be re-sown the following year: the characteristics of the variety will always be there.

With a hybrid called F1 (first generation), from mom A and dad B, with characteristics often intermediate between A and B and in general more lush than its parents, it's different, the second generation (F2) will give a lot of heterogeneous plants, resembling A, or B, or F1, or a little of one or the other! ....
As a result, by selling hybrid varieties, seed companies are guaranteed to keep their market.

Of course, a hybrid variety can be quite excellent and more resistant! That's why we designed it.

As I only buy the minimum number of seeds (most of them do myself), I always favor well "fixed" varieties.
0 x
"God laughs at those who deplore the effects of which they cherish the causes" BOSSUET
"We see what we believes"Dennis MEADOWS
Ahmed
Econologue expert
Econologue expert
posts: 12298
Registration: 25/02/08, 18:54
Location: Burgundy
x 2963




by Ahmed » 24/04/11, 22:32

Of course, a hybrid variety can be quite excellent and more resistant! That's why we designed it.

The first sentence may be correct, but surely not the second!
The selection is made according to commercial criteria: aspect "seller" = very round, very red; resistant to shocks and conservation to limit losses for traders, etc.

In short, these market criteria mean that the tomato cannot more be tasty, tender, nutritious *, because you cannot select on all areas: what is favored is at the expense of something else ...

* see a thread on the decrease in nutritional intake of current fruits and vegetables.
0 x
"Please don't believe what I'm telling you."
bidouille23
Grand Econologue
Grand Econologue
posts: 1155
Registration: 21/06/09, 01:02
Location: Britain BZH powaaa
x 2




by bidouille23 » 25/04/11, 01:49

Hi,

In agreement with Ahmed, indeed it seems that the choice of hybridization criteria is based rather on the form and the qualities related to the sale rather than the taste and energy qualities.

The majority of the current choices are also oriented in this direction.

In your definition hightfly you say:

"

With a so-called F1 hybrid (first generation), from mom A and dad B, with characteristics often intermediate between A and B and generally more luxuriant than its parents, it's different, the second generation (F2) will give a lot of heterogeneous plants, resembling A, or B, or F1, or a bit of one or the other! "

we conclude that we are forced to buy seeds every year suddenly, even if the taste or resistance (which between us also depends on many other things;)) are better, have lost one of the most important things , the seed therefore freedom.

Besides, you make your seeds yourself with well "fixed" races.
When you hybridize hybrids and you fix the race obtained what happens ??? we keep saying that there are fixed races;)?

By taking the choice of old or very old hybrid breeds (who know) and well have made the choice of freedom and taste, tasted and you will see :) .

So let's produce our seeds and distribute them in part;) it's good for everyone, there is a space for exchange and donation of seeds on the forum ??? it may be an idea developed right?
I want to participate, I have some cool things I think and I am looking for others :)

see you
0 x
User avatar
highfly-addict
Grand Econologue
Grand Econologue
posts: 757
Registration: 05/03/08, 12:07
Location: Pyrenees, 43 years
x 7




by highfly-addict » 25/04/11, 02:15

Ahmed wrote:
Of course, a hybrid variety can be quite excellent and more resistant! That's why we designed it.

The first sentence may be correct, but surely not the second!
The selection is made according to commercial criteria: aspect "seller" = very round, very red; resistant to shocks and conservation to limit losses for traders, etc.

In short, these market criteria mean that the tomato cannot more be tasty, tender, nutritious *, because you cannot select on all areas: what is favored is at the expense of something else ...

* see a thread on the decrease in nutritional intake of current fruits and vegetables.


Indeed, a little imprecision on my part: I wanted to say "it is moreover for this reason that we have started to hybridize plants (and animals as well)."

On the other hand, I think that we can, if we really want to, select on all the fields, simply it is much, much longer because much more selection criteria, therefore .... indeed, not profitable to short term.

Sad Epoch.
Last edited by highfly-addict the 25 / 04 / 11, 02: 33, 1 edited once.
0 x
"God laughs at those who deplore the effects of which they cherish the causes" BOSSUET

"We see what we believes"Dennis MEADOWS

 


  • Similar topics
    Replies
    views
    Last message

Back to "waste, recycling and reuse of old objects"

Who is online ?

Users browsing this forum : No registered users and 57 guests