WHAT TO CHOOSE? Calculator problem with the electric car

Cars, buses, bicycles, electric airplanes: all electric transportation that exist. Conversion, engines and electric drives for transport ...
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Re: WHAT TO CHOOSE? Calculator problem with the electric car




by sicetaitsimple » 15/12/18, 16:24

RIAZ wrote:It's astonishing to say that a thing is false without providing an argument while giving the reason why it is true: you just have to agree on the price!

When EDF (RTE) MUST sell its current, it is inevitably supplier at the lowest price and it inevitably finds taker without putting a gun on the temple of anyone.
Michel


And why therefore EDF (not RTE which does not sell electricity, it transports it) SHOULD be "necessarily" a supplier whatever the price?
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Re: WHAT TO CHOOSE? Calculator problem with the electric car




by sicetaitsimple » 15/12/18, 17:19

RIAZ wrote:It's amazing to say that something is wrong without providing an argument while giving the reason why it is true


When rereading, I admit to being a little disturbed by this statement! We do not provide an argument while giving the reason why it is true ?????????

Uh, it's going to get complicated for my little head… ..
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Re: WHAT TO CHOOSE? Calculator problem with the electric car




by Did67 » 15/12/18, 17:42

For my part, two debates intersect, although this is not always clearly stated:

a) EV and the new electricity needs it generates

b) get out - or at least limit - nuclear ...

If we don't care about nuclear power, or even if we are in favor because we find it formidable, then, in fact, there is considerable room for maneuver, because, indeed, it is possible to "program" a good share of recharging during off-peak hours. And then the EV will be a market with an increase in electricity demand justifying a few more EPRs. And even though today, the need to schedule charging at low times is not necessarily in mind - I'm afraid the majority of current owners will come home at 19 p.m. and plug in their batteries. VE, at the same time as they turn on the heating, put the roast in the oven and start the dishwasher ... No problem.

If we think that nuclear poses some problems, and if ethically, as I explained elsewhere, we are against it, then the equation is more difficult. Even with a PV installation, there will be a lot of constraints: insufficient production in winter, travel, production during the day when EV is likely to be parked elsewhere ... The risk of using fossil fuels, therefore lead to the balance sheet C , is real. And, alas, many proponents of EV are also anti-nuclear and campaign against global warming. AIE Aie Aie !!! Lo and behold, apart from the fact that I still haven't won the lotto, I still don't have an EV.
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Re: WHAT TO CHOOSE? Calculator problem with the electric car




by Did67 » 15/12/18, 17:46

sicetaitsimple wrote:
And why therefore EDF (not RTE which does not sell electricity, it transports it) SHOULD be "necessarily" a supplier whatever the price?


Because sometimes there are occasional surpluses that cannot be destroyed - hence, in tiny quantities, sometimes ... negative prices! The producer pays to get rid of the electricity. Attention: these are the "spot" markets, at the margin. The bulk of the trade is contractual, therefore negotiated in advance.
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Re: WHAT TO CHOOSE? Calculator problem with the electric car




by Christophe » 15/12/18, 17:53

The same thing exists in monetary creation: it is called negative bank interest!

The world is crazy!
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Re: WHAT TO CHOOSE? Calculator problem with the electric car




by Did67 » 15/12/18, 18:39

Yes, it is comparable: you have made too much money, which you do not know what to do; you lend at a negative interest rate (in short, you pay to keep you warm).

But a considerable nuance: it is the interest rate, and therefore the rent, which is negative. You repay the entire capital!
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Re: WHAT TO CHOOSE? Calculator problem with the electric car




by Bardal » 15/12/18, 19:13

Did67 wrote:For my part, two debates intersect, although this is not always clearly stated:

a) EV and the new electricity needs it generates

b) get out - or at least limit - nuclear ...

If we don't care about nuclear power, or even if we are in favor because we find it formidable, then, in fact, there is considerable room for maneuver, because, indeed, it is possible to "program" a good share of recharging during off-peak hours. And then the EV will be a market with an increase in electricity demand justifying a few more EPRs. And even though today, the need to schedule charging at low times is not necessarily in mind - I'm afraid the majority of current owners will come home at 19 p.m. and plug in their batteries. VE, at the same time as they turn on the heating, put the roast in the oven and start the dishwasher ... No problem.

If we think that nuclear poses some problems, and if ethically, as I explained elsewhere, we are against it, then the equation is more difficult. Even with a PV installation, there will be a lot of constraints: insufficient production in winter, travel, production during the day when EV is likely to be parked elsewhere ... The risk of using fossil fuels, therefore lead to the balance sheet C , is real. And, alas, many proponents of EV are also anti-nuclear and campaign against global warming. AIE Aie Aie !!! Lo and behold, apart from the fact that I still haven't won the lotto, I still don't have an EV.


Yes, it is quite well problematized ... It is even fundamentally the choice that presents itself to humanity ... not only on the question of means of transport ... But it is not, in worldwide, a simple nuclear / renewable energy alternative, multiple combinations that can be developed ...

Just one point, however: in terms of vehicles, the substitution of petroleum by electric is ipso facto a significant reduction in the final energy consumed, by a factor of about 4 ... And on this point, no alternative choice ...
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Re: WHAT TO CHOOSE? Calculator problem with the electric car




by sicetaitsimple » 15/12/18, 19:16

Did67 wrote:For my part, two debates intersect, although this is not always clearly stated:

a) EV and the new electricity needs it generates

b) get out - or at least limit - nuclear ...



You are absolutely right, but some argue that the development of the EV in France would be "neutral" (even harmful?) From a CO2 point of view because our neighbors would be obliged to compensate for a drop in "nuclear" imports from France by "coal" emissions. Which is not true, at least for the year.

In addition, the debate seems premature to me ... By the time EVs make 10% of sales it will take, in my opinion, 5 to 10 years and by the time they make 10% of the fleet at least 10 years longer. By then the European electricity production parks will have changed!
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Re: WHAT TO CHOOSE? Calculator problem with the electric car




by sicetaitsimple » 15/12/18, 19:26

Did67 wrote:
sicetaitsimple wrote:
And why therefore EDF (not RTE which does not sell electricity, it transports it) SHOULD be "necessarily" a supplier whatever the price?


Because sometimes there are occasional surpluses that cannot be destroyed - hence, in tiny quantities, sometimes ... negative prices! The producer pays to get rid of the electricity. Attention: these are the "spot" markets, at the margin. The bulk of the trade is contractual, therefore negotiated in advance.


There are sometimes "local" surpluses, yes, in particular wind power in northern Germany, which produces almost all negative price episodes in Europe.

When our German friends have solved this problem via on the one hand the closure of their nuclear power and also the finalization of the strengthening of their THT network from north to south, the two arriving around 2022, we will no longer talk about negative prices.

Negative prices are an aberration only linked to bad programming. We do not massively reinforce production capacities in an area without providing the transport capacities that go with it.
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Re: WHAT TO CHOOSE? Calculator problem with the electric car




by Did67 » 15/12/18, 19:46

sicetaitsimple wrote:In addition, the debate seems premature to me ... By the time EVs make 10% of sales it will take, in my opinion, 5 to 10 years and by the time they make 10% of the fleet at least 10 years longer. By then the European electricity production parks will have changed!


I like, from the "launch" of an idea, especially if it wants to be "brilliant", check that on the one hand it is sustainable (we often think of it), but also generalizable (something that is generally obscured : for example, organic fertilization of crops labeled "organic", in particular from "various waste" - poultry droppings, slurry, hair, feathers, crushed horn - does not pose a problem when this represents roughly 5% of the agricultural production; this is completely unrealistic, at current doses, when it will be 100%).

So yes, it is not tomorrow that EVs will make 10% of the fleet. And so for a long time to come, it will just be a "doghouse", which is no problem - jokingly, we can say that it "is enough" that not everyone leaves the freezer open too long for nothing!
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