Mitsubishi MiEV electric, CO2 emissions: 41 g per km

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Mitsubishi MiEV electric, CO2 emissions: 41 g per km




by Christophe » 03/10/08, 09:34

"Our electric car indirectly emits 41 grams per km!"

This is a very honest admission, seen at yesterday's FR2 newscast, from a mitsubishi official about their next electric car, the Mistsubishi. Extract to see here: https://www.econologie.com/voiture-elect ... -3944.html

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I quote:

Taking into account the manufacturing batteries, we arrive at an emission equivalent of 41 g CO2 per km


You read correctly: it does not speak, a priori except error of translation of the journalist, that of the manufacture of the battery and therefore it is necessary to add the electric production!

And taking electricity generation so?

It takes about 0.2 kWh / km (low estimate) to advance a small vehicle in town.

In France, the average is 90 g / kWh so 18 grams must be added to these 41 g or 59 g / CO2. So good! (thank you nuclear ...)

On the other hand, in Germany it is the catastrophe since the average is 600 g / kWh is in the end 161 g / CO2 (equivalent of a hdi consuming 6.2 L / 100)

Average of Europe 15: 0,46 CO2 kg / kWh elec.

https://www.econologie.com/europe-emissi ... -3722.html

On the other hand, "fortunately" (for the electric car) that there is not ONLY CO2 CRITERION to take into account!

But talking about Zero Emission is, in any case, a lie! But this is the name we dared to give the ingested from renault to their last protopipo!

new-transport / World-from-self-2008-too-green-to-be-honest-t6279.html

ps: apparently there would be a partnership between PSA and Mistubishi
Last edited by Christophe the 11 / 01 / 09, 11: 53, 1 edited once.
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by Christophe » 03/10/08, 09:40

You can see the story in question here: http://jt.france2.fr/20h/

ELECTRIC VEHICLE BACKREST 00h21m11s

You can also listen to the following: MONDIAL DE L'AUTO / CARLOS GHOSN 00h24m33s
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by harry ravi » 03/10/08, 11:16

On the other hand, in Germany it is the catastrophe since the average is 600 g / kWh is in the end 161 g / CO2 (equivalent of a hdi consuming 6.2 L / 100)


Yes surely but there you speak about the direct consumption in CO2 of the hdi ..... if you speak about the production of CO2 by the consumption AND the production of the source of energy AND the manufacture of the engine / reservoir, it will be necessary do the same for diesel production.

Finally I think you know more than me, it will be more interesting to compare the same data.
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by Christophe » 03/10/08, 11:45

That's right, I made a mistake ... Mea Culpa! : Oops:

But it was to compare a vehicle so called without emission to the reality of the facts ... on this point nothing changes: a VE is not so clean on the CO2 at least!

Now, according to the JT, these 41 grams concern the BATTERIES and not the whole car ....

Assuming that the manufacturing of the motor hdi is in the same order of magnitude (in my opinion it is less because its lifetime is more important): it would therefore be necessary to lower the digits of the hdi 41 g: one would thus obtain a car equivalent to 120 g for Germany.

I'm always looking for figures on the gray energy and materials needed to make a car .... Notice to the guys at PSA and Renault who regularly pass on forums
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by dirk pitt » 03/10/08, 12:05

to make a classic car of 1000kg produces about 5tonnes of CO2 (source: ecoconso.be)
if we bring that back to 100.000 kms (although the life is now longer) that's in 50g / km
so if we imagine that making a small car elec, including batteries does not give more than a conventional car a ton (I see no reason it would not be the case) the mitzvah gentleman was honest saying 41g / km c is the same order of magnitude.
in theory, the car elec has a longer life and almost no maintenance, so no spare parts, oil to change, filters, etc. which consumes additional gray energy.
it would be necessary to count all this also on the life time vehicle to compare.

Christophe, I find you severe with "Zero emission"
The notion of ZEV (zero Emission Vehicle) is not really wrong in the sense that the emission is zero ... during operation.
Emissions are out of sync with time (during recharging) and centralized at electricity production sites (for fossil electricity). This last point is nevertheless a serious health benefit for city dwellers, especially it is easier to master the centralized emission levels on an industrial site of production than on thousands of small engines more or less well regulated and more or less well used.
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by harry ravi » 03/10/08, 12:13

I do not think we have to lower the 41g consumption of the hdi.

We have (Envirron) 161g CO2 / 100km gross fuel consumption by the vehicle.

To this must be added the production of CO2 for crude oil extraction, refining, transportation, .....

I think we will be well above 90g / kWh (see 600g / kWh in Germany) just for end-to-end kinetic energy production.

After it is sure that bateries are less time than a diesel engine, there will necessarily be recycling to do but on the side of the generator, it will require less oil, coolant, overhauls, breakdowns that the already robust diesel engine (the hdi I do not know but the good old 1,9L are values ​​sure level endurance).
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by Christophe » 03/10/08, 12:20

harry ravi wrote:To this must be added the production of CO2 for crude oil extraction, refining, transportation, .....


Between 10 and 20% depending on the regions / quality of the crude / age of the refinery. The oil wars are not included in this report!

In addition it should do the same for French uranium! I doubt that this is counted in the figures ZERO CO2 proudly brandishing the nuclear lobby!

harry ravi wrote:I think we will be well above 90g / kWh (see 600g / kWh in Germany) just for end-to-end kinetic energy production.


Absolutely! There is gray energy (and gray CO2) as much for fuel oil as for thermal power stations ... and nuclear!

harry ravi wrote:After it is sure that bateries are less time than a diesel engine, there will necessarily be recycling to do but on the side of the generator, it will require less oil, coolant, overhauls, breakdowns that the already robust diesel engine (the hdi I do not know but the good old 1,9L are values ​​sure level endurance).


I think we're chipboard! To make such a comparison would be very tedious and especially speculative in the absence of concrete data ... I just wanted to say that the electric vehicles are not so clean that ca ... at least in their current form (and it will change maybe ?)...See Transportation-electric / electric-car-and-a-less-popular-to-5000-t6271.html
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by harry ravi » 03/10/08, 12:25

Yes I agree, I do not criticize VE which is a beautiful invention (since it exists) but rather the production of electricity ....

I would like to know if you know, the average distance traveled a French per day and how many kWh of electricity must we provide to 1km (order of magnitude, I know it depends on many factors ).
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by Christophe » 03/10/08, 12:30

dirk pitt wrote:to make a classic car of 1000kg produces about 5tonnes of CO2 (source: ecoconso.be)


Ah Super! Would you have the link on direct study?

I had always "read" that it was the equivalent of 30 km traveled .... Starting on a diesel, these 000 kg represent 5L of fuel, ie consumption over 000 km of ... 2000 L / 30! It sticks!! Great! These figures must therefore be fairly correct.

dirk pitt wrote:mister of mitsu was honest saying 41g / km it is the same order of magnitude.


Ben the worry is that (but I chipotet) the reporter said that for the manufacture and recycling of batteries!

dirk pitt wrote:Christophe, I find you severe with "Zero Emissions" The notion of ZEV (zero Emission Vehicle) is not really false in the sense that the emission is zero ... during operation.


Ben pkoi Mistu says it and not Renault then? Otherwise, provided they are at democratic prices, the ZEV obviously have advantages for the city ... for the climate I am much less certain.

However, we should not limit the use of private cars in town rather than developing "ZEVs all to myself because I have CALVES (voluntary error) well"
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by Christophe » 03/10/08, 12:36

harry ravi wrote:I would like to know if you know, the average distance traveled a French per day and how many kWh of electricity must we provide to 1km (order of magnitude, I know it depends on many factors ).


answers:

a) Then the average of the one-way work-to-work trip is 23km for each French worker! It's enormous!

b) For electricity I said it above in the calculation: it takes between 0.2 and 0.3 kWh per km for a small car, between 20 and 30 kWh for 100km.
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